What is This Stuff?
What is This Stuff?
The short end piece (shown above) was the surprise. When I brushed it on the wire wheel there were no pits whatsoever. There was only a light brownish patina on it and as it polished the wire wheel removed that slowly and hardly affected the surface any.
Several things impressed me that I had something unusual.
-- Absolutely no rust or corrosion pits,
-- The end had a burr from having been hammered, and when I chamfered it off with the grinder the material was clearly some stern stuff as it did not grind off easily,
-- Despite being embedded in a somewhat rusty steel joiner nut, the threads emerged bright, clean and undamaged,
-- I saw that the metal was yellowish color only slightly lighter than polished 360 Brass (The inset of the threads best represents the overall color, and in the rest of the image the color appears lighter than actual),
-- Testing with a file suggests a hardness close to what I would expect of 4140 Pre-Hard,
-- The metal is just barely ferro-magnetic. Placed on a smooth, flat, level, wood surface, when a strong magnet is moved to within about a 1/4 inch of the rod it will weakly roll towards the magnet,
-- when I went to unscrew it, the teeth of my pipe wrench simply skidded on the surface of the rod and could not get a bite until I put the one jaw on the damaged spot at the other end,
-- The condition of the damaged spot and the very slight flaring from hammering suggest significant ductility,
-- The damage spot appears to be a set screw location where the rod was forced to slide at least once without loosening the set screw, and the screw was later tightened several times. Given the bluntness of the cup point screw marks It appears that the rod "gave nearly as good as it got" and I suspect considerable torque had to be used.
Given the file marks I made on the one end, I think I would not try to cut this stuff without using a carbide cutter. It seems pretty respectable stuff. I would describe it as:
-- Superbly corrosion resistant
-- Hard and tough
-- Attractive appearance
-- Possibly abrasion resistant
EDIT:
Additional Information,
Density: approximately .303 Lbm/cu in = 8.38 gm/cc
Specific Gravity = 8.38
So then, has anyone worked with anything like this and/or got any good educated guesses what this stuff is ???
My curiosity is killing me I think I could use a material like this ........ If I could afford it.
Last edited by dgoddard on Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I never met anybody that I couldn't learn something from.
Re: What is This Stuff?
Sounds like it could be K-monel, although it is non-magnetic. Could also be a 302 stainless, that is slightly magnetic, but not as hard as K-monel.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
Re: What is This Stuff?
Well it s distinctly but weakly responsive to a magnet, but to look at it laying on the table after it has been cleaned up, it looks like a piece of brass. I am aware that 300 series stainless steels in a oxodizing environment will take on a brown patina, however the patina on this was quit a bit lighter in color than what I have seen on stainless. All of that is wire wheeled off now and matches the color where the grinding wheel was used to grind off the flair on the end. This stuff is light yellow all the way through. But I think it is way too hard for brass, and besides brass is never magnetic by any means I know.Mr Ron wrote:Sounds like it could be K-monel, although it is non-magnetic. Could also be a 302 stainless, that is slightly magnetic, but not as hard as K-monel.
The various processed forms of the K monel seem about right except that they are supposed to be non-magnetic from what I can see down to -150F
I have not found anything about the 400 monel magnetic properties. and with certain processes its hardness looks about right.
I re-tested the magnetic attraction and found that only my strongest magnet will reliably get the round rod to roll without touching it and my moderate magnets must touch it to be able to pull it along so possibly it could be K-monel as It has no useful degree of magnetic property. I place a magnet against it and cannot it get to attract even small chips. the apparant hardness I have witnessed would be more consistent with K-Monel rod for what I can find without going to spring wire temper material in the 400 Monel.
I never met anybody that I couldn't learn something from.
Re: What is This Stuff?
We used to use that stuff a lot. If it is slightly magnetic it is hypermanurium, if not it is unobtanium.
--earlgo
(A prime example of why no-one sends donkeys to college.)
--earlgo
(A prime example of why no-one sends donkeys to college.)
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
Re: What is This Stuff?
earlgo,
Given the very brass like color, don't you think that there is also a possibility that it could be nonsuchium? Or possibly even one of the grades of the copper alloyed Fecalium - Bovinium alloys?
Given the very brass like color, don't you think that there is also a possibility that it could be nonsuchium? Or possibly even one of the grades of the copper alloyed Fecalium - Bovinium alloys?
I never met anybody that I couldn't learn something from.
Re: What is This Stuff?
A chunk of material that is in my "inventory" is marked Monel K500 and we used it long ago for springs in Automatic Fire Sprinklers. It is entirely non-magnetic even with a modern magnet.
Does it spark when you hit it with a grinder? The piece I have is non-sparking.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
Re: What is This Stuff?
But then the question arises as to whether that is dependant on the heat treat or other processing as it is for other alloys.earlgo wrote:...... It is entirely non-magnetic even with a modern magnet. ...
Good question I went down to the shop and tested it. It is utterly non sparking!earlgo wrote:......Does it spark when you hit it with a grinder? The piece I have is non-sparking.
The Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers, Baumeister and Marks, 7th ed. Page 6-83 says,
So I guess that pretty much rules out Monel K500Monel is feebly magnetic and loses all ferromagnetism above 200 F. Monel K500 is non-magnetic down to at least -110 F.
Speaking of Monel 400, the same Handbook says:
So Monel 400 would be compatible with what I have seen of this piece. At 1/2 inch diameter I am not sure if it would be subject to as much drawing as "wires" but certainly that suggests that substantial hardness can be achieved by some manner of cold work, and might be consistent with what I have observed.It combines high strength, high ductility, and excellent resistance to corrosion. It is a homogeneous solid solution alloy; hence its strength can be increased by cold working alone. In the annealed state its tensile strength is about 70,000 psi, and this may be increased to 170,000 in the hardest drawn wires.
Can anyone confirm that the yellow brass like color is in fact a characteristic of Monel, Given the around 30% copper content that sounds reasonable.
I never met anybody that I couldn't learn something from.
Re: What is This Stuff?
Could it be one of the Ampco's?
Re: What is This Stuff?
Please dispell my ignorance, what is an Ampco ? A trade name perhaps?mcostello wrote:Could it be one of the Ampco's?
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Re: What is This Stuff?
Ampco is a proprietary name for non ferric alloy used to make non sparking tools - once required in industries handling highly flammable materials. You could buy almost any kind of hand tool, at premium price. I worked in a major oil and gas company for 30+ years and never saw any. It was explained to me that no one ever used a tool hard enough to generate sparks!
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPCO_METAL
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPCO_METAL