I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I hope

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dgoddard
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I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I hope

Post by dgoddard »

I think the title describes my situation, however the wife and I are in the process of setting up a trust to provide for the distribution of our estate. In the course of my life I have acquired a rather nice basement machineshop. including such key items as
10x54 Lagun FTV2 Mill
3hp 3 phase rotary converter for the Mill
12 x 36 lathe
Horizontal band saw
12 ton hydraulic press
MIG welder
and a bunch of tooling relevant to the foregoing and a well appointed stock rack, (probably worth close to what the machines are).

My one son who would have had interest in such things has predeceased us several years ago. My second son is much more interested in the "hobby farm / estate managment" agricultural equipment relevant to his future living plans. So the machine shop is likely to be sold. The market for the sort of equipment in that shop is a niche market. I would shudder to think that it might be sold at an eatate auction where for lack of bidding the stuff is sold for a pittance and put in some rube's open shed to rust and be used only occasionally and crudely and destructively at that. In that scenario, if it were actually possible to be turning in one's grave, I would be up to at least 100 rpm.

Now what would be optimum for a buyer is if someone with a machining hobby bought the whole setup 1.8 acre pond 20 acres with fishing and hunting and low taxes as a package deal for retirement. It is what I put this place together for with features like a drive in basement area adjacent to the machine shop. etc.

Obviously I have an interest in getting the most for the estate and hence our children and grandchildren And fortunately if my wife has to sell this stuff off I have introduced her to a local auctioneer who does such auctions via internet and live simultaneously so that specialty items reach the appropriate audience. Hopefully if it is done by a trustee it will be done similarly.

However I raise this question here because I suspect that others may have considered such things before and have thought through the issues involved. When I leave this world I would like to think that my passing would have been a blessing to as many as possible rather than an opportunity for a bunch of harpies to pluck my bones (to speak metaphorically).

The floor is open for comment.

P.S.
To put things in perspective; Although I am 70 years old. I have to get busy today because day before yesterday, I was up in an oak tree chain sawing off large limbs and now I have to get busy and haul it up to the house and stack all that firewood I chain sawed to stove lengths and stack it for seasoning. Some of it will need splitting. So I am not about to kick the bucket soon, and Oh Yeah! I am real careful with that chain saw and my other equipment too. :wink: I am one of those healty active oldsters.
I never met anybody that I couldn't learn something from.
curtis cutter
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by curtis cutter »

Your thoughts are not uncommon. I will have to divide my homes and property between four children. The only way to do that is to sell it and split the proceeds four ways. I know they would love to hold onto the "compound", but I cannot see it happening.

I have no idea where the tools, tractors etc will go.

The only thing I pray is that my four children and their children all share among each other what I leave behind.
Gregg
Just let go of it, it will eventually unplug itself.
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Dave_C
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by Dave_C »

Oh boy,

This discussion has been had between the wife and I as well. I finally came to the conclusion to live and let the chips fall where they will! Worrying about what someone is going to do with "my stuff" after I'm gone can get quite depressing while trying to work out all the details. My solution is to get the intended use out of my machines and the hobby itself and let the kids do whatever they want.

Our kids have no skills or interest in the machine shop or hobby area so I suspect they would auction it all off at $0.10 on the dollar and have it spent in a week.

I'll do the best I can at selling off some stuff as I age and no longer need it, but if I don't, I'm not gonna fret over it. You can't take it with you!

At some point I can see I will not have the energy to keep up with all the maintenance and I will want to move to a smaller home with little outside work. (Not the 3 acre lot I have now) At that point I hope to find someone who would like the machines. But if not, that's life.

I've learned over the years that what is a treasure to me is junk to someone else.

Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
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Gary Armitstead
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by Gary Armitstead »

I'm 73 and my wife and I came to the conclusion that I enjoyed my "stuff" while I was here and I'm certainly not going to worry about it after I'm "gone". My wife says she will just "give" it to all our kids and my buddies and throw the remaining stuff away. Pretty easy. :)
Gary Armitstead
Burbank, CA
Member LALS since 1980
Member Goleta Valley Railroad Club 1980-1993
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dgoddard
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Location: Lebanon MO

Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by dgoddard »

Dave_C wrote:..... what someone is going to do with "my stuff" after I'm gone can get quite depressing while trying to work out all the details.
The surprise for me has been that the depressing part has been struggling with getting the lawyer to get the trust document right. I impose a demand that the entire document be readable by a high school graduate so that without recourse to a lawyer or financial expert that each beneficiary stands a reasonable chance of understanding the trust document. This document is going to distribute more money and/or value than anything I have ever done in all the rest of my life and I insist that the document states it in such a way that I can understand it. (oh by the way I have 25 years of formal education and a PhD. The style of writing used by lawyers if you do not rein them in is obfuscation and baffle gab. The lawyer I have is a pretty good guy but he has been steeped in legalese for decades and gravitates toward its stilted style. I on the other hand am an engineer who has written many specifications for Nuclear Reactor Design and manufacturing of components. I insist on clarity and specificity, or it is not going to get signed.

Dave_C wrote:.My solution is to get the intended use out of my machines and the hobby itself and let the kids do whatever they want.
I am doing my best to make clear to my children and grandchildren that it is my stuff and My first criterion is that the "stuff" which I explictly bequeath goes to whoever I think can derive the most benefit with it. Then if it is not special to anyone it gets sold and the money gets divided in as equitable manner as I can arrange and a bunch of it goes to the grand children in equal shares. It is my stuff to give away and I value what it can accomplish and I intend to put it where it can be best exploited.

Dave_C wrote:Our kids have no skills or interest in the machine shop or hobby area so I suspect they would auction it all off at $0.10 on the dollar....
Yep, that is exactly what I fear would happen, and if it was going to go that cheap, I would rather direct that the auctioneer sell it only to the folks on this board in memory of all the good advice I have received here. so they can have as much fun with it as I have had. and maybe a few newbies could get their hobby up and running.
Dave_C wrote:I'll do the best I can at selling off some stuff as I age and no longer need it, but if I don't, I'm not gonna fret over it. You can't take it with you!
I would do the same if I was past being able to use it but I would probably turn it over to the auctioneer that I think can keep it from going to a bunch of rubes who will go away chuckling about how they ripped of that old guy's estate who had all this good stuff, and I have already introduced my wife to that auctioneer. So unless I kick off suddenly, in about 10 years you might start to watch for my estate sale. (I said "start" not "expect" ! :roll: )
Dave_C wrote: I've learned over the years that what is a treasure to me is junk to someone else.
Surely that is true but also it is often treasure to someone else. I have acquired a few things at estate sales that I think I have treasured as much as the previous owner. The trick is trying to figure out how to get the right buyer and seller together.
I never met anybody that I couldn't learn something from.
Rolland
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by Rolland »

We set up a family trust a couple of years ago to make things easier for the two boys and my wife, (if I go first). I talked my mother into one and it made clearing things up much easier. Having been a LEO I have got to see the dark side of a family when the parents die, it is unbelievable the change in family members fighting over what is left. The trust is really a good way to lay things out ahead of time and make your wishes known.
PeteM
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by PeteM »

I faced this question several years ago, with cancer throughout my body and given six months to live. At that time, I brought in a financial advisor for my wife (to have some assurance she'd be good for the 99 or so years her family seems to live). Also made up a huge inventory list of my home shop (maybe 50 pages) and started selling the large powered tools. Nineteen of 'em and around $30,000 worth of sales in a month or two. Also donated a tool collection to fund a $25,000 engineering scholarship and gave away all sorts of stuff to family, friends, and non-profits (artwork, books, scientific instruments, etc.).

Turns out, with a bit of luck and persistence, I've been living happily past my expiration date. Back to buying many tools back as projects come up -- though dearly missing my best lathe, my largest bandsaw (18" under the guides), a Hossfeld bender with almost every die set, the best of the welders, the Arboga drill press, and so on. I still get a lot of pleasure from fixing/making stuff, helping with various kids' science fair projects, and the like.

One good thing that our town has is two used tool dealers, both run by decent guys. One specializes in machine tools, has met my wife, and knows that we expect him to offer a fair price for the metalworking stuff when I'm gone. He can probably afford to offer 50% of market value on the bigger stuff, maybe 30% on the tooling. The other is more into construction and woodworking. Your auction guy might be the same sort of trusted resource for you. Fair dealing, while also understanding he has to make a living.

Anyhow, my conclusions:
- You won't miss stuff you're not going to use -- especially if you find a good home for it. I was pretty much delighted to see most of the tool collection end up funding a scholarship.
- Stuff you use, you might as well keep around for the pleasure it gives you because your wife is never likely to get more than 50% of what it's worth.
- Having an inventory list with a rough idea of used price might be useful.
- Nothing wrong with putting a label on or a slip of paper in something that has more value than appearances might dictate. I now do this, for example, on the back of artwork. Hard to tell the $50 woodblock print bought in Japan from the one worth more than ten thousand. To my wife's eye, a Whitney Jr. punch set worth $50 and a $500 Ames portable hardness tester might look pretty much the same. Both hand-held, with a box, and some other stuff. Same thing between a boring head and a facing head.
- I tend to keep stuff together that belongs together in the shop. Compartments for adjustment tools on machines, etc. Nothing worse than an auction where stuff starts out separated.
- Hook your wife up with friends, neighbors, tool sellers etc. that can help sort things out.
- In the scheme of things, it probably doesn't make too much sense to worry that a tools worth $15,000 are probably going to end up selling for $5000. You don't want your widow or kids agonizing for months in order to get $10,000 more out of the tool part of your estate. In the best case (your auction?) maybe some kid will get a start with one tool, a young family guy another, someone starting a shop another, and so on. In the worst case, some slime ball will try to cherry pick everything from your widow. Avoid that worst case, and let others have a deal would be my feeling.
PeteM
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by PeteM »

Just to add, there's an old joke about this.

Husband: "Honey, when I die, I just hope you don't remarry and let some asshat have all my tools."

Wife: "Honey, what makes you think I'd marry another asshat?"
hammermill
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by hammermill »

or the prayer please dont sell them for what you think i paid.
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chipswarf
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by chipswarf »

I have two daughters entirely uninterested in my tools. Nor are their boyfriends (the ones I've met, anyway). I've chosen this way to think about it: sure, it'll be unlikely that full value will be realized when the tools are sold, but I hold to the idea that this may provide an opportunity for someone starting out or some shop genius who is short on money. If 10% of my collection ends up this way, I'll be happy with that. And, the girls don't need to agonize over what to do with Daddy's stuff.
10 Wheeler Rob
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by 10 Wheeler Rob »

One of my good friends says he told the Mrs. To just give it away, only stipulation is they have to take it all! I am hoping to find a younger fellow who ia into my kinda hobby to pass it along to. I got two young grandsons which I hope live long enough for the to grow up, so maybe it can pass on to them. But my collection of machines has served me well and hope to continue for a good long time.

And yes we need to set up a trust to smooth out the inevitable.

Rob
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liveaboard
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Re: I am going to die...... Well Sometime ...... Not soon I

Post by liveaboard »

Values of machine tools seem to vary hugely depending on time and place; I've been watching ebay auctions in the UK [there's nothing happening here in Portugal where I live].
A big lathe is hard to move, hard to have a place for. Not many private people have the necessary facilities.
Selling a whole workshop in one lot sounds nice, but think about that; how likely is it that someone who knows enough to want it all has none of it already?

I told my wife all my stuff is pretty much ancient worn out junk; don't worry about it. I still get good use from it, but it's just one step from scrap.
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