slide material

[spro]

This has been bugging me for a long time. Lets say a slide is rusted but not terribly. Lets also say that any rusted slide or surface is junk. At some point you have to factor in the worth or rarity of the machine. In some cases we stand between the scrapyard or owning a machine which won't be available again. There has been a recent example. I hazard to guess most of us are not into serious production and would like a machine to suit our needs for custom work and situations. Some years later, remember X machine went into a junk pile -But it was really good like a '57 Chevrolet, Rocket nose Studebaker and so many things. Consider a machine tool with its slides in one position and rust all around. Where it didn't rust is a register. This goes back at least 20 years; floating the worn surface. I mean destroying the rust and leaving the high points. Treating the iron and floating equivalent of silver solder over the pockets. That surface could be scraped in level and last some years. The ways are broad.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

I'm not sure what you are getting at but there are products
out there used in the machine tool rebuilding industry that
might be of use in this situation. I refer to Moglice® and
Turcite®.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

[spro]

Sure I shouldn't say more. I was never able to be on the other side of this position as if the pickers sought me out. To the bitter end, guys have a plan for all these things but I'm only talking machine tools. I think it is better to have a piece of history, as in a machine tool, somewhere in your shop. I don't mean rob it from a fervent person by outbid but it is American industrial history. If you have room to store and use it, it is a special machine nobody else can order. FWIW I actually had an opportunity to own a Brown & Sharpe #0 Omniversal at an auction in Wash D.C. years ago.
I had read about them someplace and couldn't believe I was standing in front of one. I was totally unprepared for a machine of this weight as my van was only 3/4 ton max and there was basically NO Parking anyplace close for trailers. But it was grimey but it sold back then cheap.
I didn't know how things were to turn out and perhaps for the best. I would hate to be the person who didn't have room to store it.

[spro]

Oh yes, Webb. I was typing about a different way in which a new surface is floated over the rusted areas. In my case, I don't think they would immediately wear to nothing but if in between, I saved a machine from being ruined, it would be worth something.
Okay. Richard King has probably seen temporary repairs as this and also Turcite etc. but don't I know that there was some owner in the middle? Someone who saved the machine before it was cool. You know.

[John Hasler]

This has been bugging me for a long time. Lets say a slide is rusted but not terribly. Lets also say that any rusted slide or surface is junk. At some point you have to factor in the worth or rarity of the machine. In some cases we stand between the scrapyard or owning a machine which won't be available again. There has been a recent example. I hazard to guess most of us are not into serious production and would like a machine to suit our needs for custom work and situations. Some years later, remember X machine went into a junk pile -But it was really good like a '57 Chevrolet, Rocket nose Studebaker and so many things. Consider a machine tool with its slides in one position and rust all around. Where it didn't rust is a register. This goes back at least 20 years; floating the worn surface. I mean destroying the rust and leaving the high points. Treating the iron and floating equivalent of silver solder over the pockets. That surface could be scraped in level and last some years. The ways are broad.

If there are enough high points leave the pockets alone and let them fill with oil. There's a continuum from a few flecks of red rust to craters and thick scale. Somewhere in there the machine becomes scrap, but the point may be different for different people.

[pete]

I don't think a much softer material would work at all well Spro. Gerneraly if a machine tool is going to have hardened ways like on a lathe it's the unexposed and unhardened surfaces like the bottom of the carraige that get scraped and today may get Rulon? Turcite or Moglice applied right at the factory. But the softer material always gets put where there's the least chance of chips embeding into it. Or it's done on a worn machines carriage ways then scraped for alighnment. And the ways are ground if there's enough left to do so.Trying to fill in old rust pockets with a softer material will have chips embeding into it for sure. Your wear on the carriage ways will skyrocket then. Anything can be rebuilt with enough money thrown at it. While I haven't heard of it being done, building up the ways with hard crome, or hard surfacing welding then grinding back to original elevations to preserve the alignments on the lead screw and feed rod might work. Lottsa bucks though. And it would take some real skill to do the welding without warping the bed like a bannana.

They have non cnc automated wire feed welders to rebuild the surfaces on the cones for large gyrotory crushers in the open pit mines and they literally add a multiple tons of weld and it takes weeks to do. Those cones work against some really hard rock after that so I know the surfaces would be durable. I think hard crome is only good for .030"-.040? thou though. Large damaged and expensive hydraulic cylinder rods get rotary ground down, the damage welded to above the required elevation, ground, the rod gets hard cromed. Then the whole rod gets rotary ground back to the correct size. Again it's expensive. But still worth it on a single cylinder that might cost $200,000 or more.

[spro]

Pete. Your knowledge of the practicality is admirable but there is always the "I want it factor" Imagine someone who has never seen this or only features of East European milling machines. When we think about the times this machine was introduced, it was also the times before WWII. Later after Barborrossa (sp) when hitler finally turned on the soviets, much aid went to soviet Russia. Many Americans and Allied lost their lives in cargo to supply Russia and thousands of tons were sunk. Trucks, food, armaments, Jeeps and machines sunk but many got through the U-boats and foul weather. These are mostly unsung heroes but somewhere in Russia there is a monument to them. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the B&S Omniversals got through also. Not saying that Andre Malishnicoff or somebody already designed and produced that type mill, or didn't. The timing is interesting and also as the "iron wall" happened, designs were going in different directions.
It is interesting to see Russian machines (I think TOS and others) which work those ways. whatever.
Then to read that only about 199 B&S Omniversals were produced until the 1960's and then they were phased out.. Makes me wonder how rotten can the machine be to either let it go or full measure. Somewhere in between, somebody got it and saved it from scrap, for all I know.
It is getting close .

[pete]

Well no one's ever said having a home metal working shop was cost effective Spro. And I can understand that "want" part also. Been there done that. Depends just how deep those rusted areas are. That Omnimill would be a huge project even if it's not too far gone. Hardened ways might or might not mean the rust hasn't gotten all that deep. 198 machines built by 1952 and production finished by the early 1960s means it's a real rare one.

[spro]

I guess it is just a thing in the long run. Hours spent with restoring that machine could have applied toward dear wife or kids. There is that window without those serious obligations where a young man strikes. Sometimes a Nash-Healy, Packard Hawk , something off the radar. I don't really see the odd ones going for/worth more than established types but machine tools are not vehicles. There is no fight amongst various manufacturers because the machinists only know what is cool or special.

political content removed by Harold

[pete]

I don't get into politics online Spro.

[spro]

Yes I agree. It serves no purpose even if you lay out the facts.

Regardless of the facts, political comments are not welcome on this board. They will not be tolerated.
Harold

[spro]

Thanks Harold. Somehow it slid that way. Thanks man we don't need that again. Sorry for whatever which is gone. Very Hot around here.