Cheap Tools from China....

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AllenH59
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Prince George BC Canada

Cheap Tools from China....

Post by AllenH59 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:18 am

I bought a bunch of stuff from China, on Wish.com...I bought a 5C chuck for the lathe, a 5C holder for the milling machine, collets, tool holders, carbide inserts, BXA tool holders for the QC tool post, The tool holders are good, as are the carbides, I bought WNMG both for external and internal, CCMT for boring small holes, 16ER AG60 threading, RDMT1003 with a face mill. a multi center set, with the changeable tips. There was a shipping problem, the 5C holder fell out of the package somewhere between china and Cincinnati, I expect they will go good for it, A couple of the other packages showed up damaged, although the contents were ok. They took everywhere from a week to a month and a half to get here. The set of centers showed up with no wedge to take the tips out, but an extra tip. After I bought all this stuff I compared prices to Amazon, and the only place the prices were significantly better was on tool holders and carbides. I am fairly sure that these are exactly the same ones you would be buying from Amazon. I salvage the forged shafts that are used for S-cam shafts in big truck and trailer brakes, and these are terrible to machine with HSS, but the WNMG inserts cut them smooth and bright.

Downwindtracker2
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:34 pm
Location: B.C.

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by Downwindtracker2 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:19 pm

When it comes to machine tooling, I joke even cheap Chinese is expensive.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers

AllenH59
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Prince George BC Canada

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by AllenH59 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:48 am

I know some of this stuff will not be right,,, however much of it is. I am willing to take a chance on it. Plus I get a few good projects, like making a backing plate for the collet chuck, and milling some shims to put the tool holder in my 4 way tool post at the right height. I use both a 4 way and a quick change. I bought enough stuff need another tool box...

Harold_V
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by Harold_V » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:59 am

It's likely not a wise thing to do when making blanket negative statements about things from China. Do keep in mind, those people are well advanced in modern technology, well proven by their abilities in defense and space, to say nothing of their well qualified civil engineering. Sure, you can get crap from China, but you can get crap from other sources too, including made in the USA, and it wouldn't be priced as cheaply.

When I acquired my CNC mill, I had also cornered ten AR collet chucks (along with other holders), but almost no collets. My good friend, Mark Hockett, who has been a reader on this board, managed to make connections with a supplier, and purchased a few sets for me for about all you'd pay for one set. They have proven to be an excellent value, and have performed to my satisfaction. That helped my limited funds do more work for me, for which I'm grateful.

Many of the readers of this board will, no doubt, remember when Made In Japan was considered about as low as one could go in quality. How things changed!

China has the same capability-----and likely will be the world's leading quality producer in good time, as nations who are content to sit on their backsides and live with the reputation earned with once acclaimed quality have lost the drive to remain in that position. It's a lot easier to just rake in the unearned money and try to convince the rest of the world that what they're doing is "good enough".

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

tornitore45
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:24 am
Location: USA Texas, Austin

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by tornitore45 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:58 am

Why is most China stuff crap? Because is custom built to American corporate buyer for a mandated price.
I worked for a major PC company and have an inside view of how the process work. Now, in the end a PC must work so our stuff was not so bad but much stuff like electric drill, for example, only must have the appearance of being useful but all they need to delivery is a toy, in other words, something that look like a drill and actually can make holes in balsa. Same for cutting tools: they shine like cutting tools, they are shaped almost like cutting tool but lack what you can not see, hardness. That said 95% of my shop is equipped with Chinese stock. I am not a gambling man but the odd of getting a serviceable tool at an affordable price are in my favor. In the end the money wasted in substandard stuff is negligible compared to the savings. If you are in this business professionally to make money, the gambling may not appeal to you for many reasons.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX

AllenH59
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:26 pm
Location: Prince George BC Canada

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by AllenH59 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:59 pm

I can tell you that their carbide is hard enough. The collet chuck was dead on with the one collet I had, the tool holders were fine, but I will have to adjust a few things to make them work. All the tools use pretty small carbide inserts, but my lathe is only 2 hp, I do not need a big cutting surface. I do have a chinese end mill that cuts deep on one cutter, I do not know if this is because the R8 adaptor for it is not true, or the 3" head is not true, or the spindle is not true. With the price being in the range of 20% of US made tools, and they come right to the door, I am willing to take the chance that something does not make me happy. I bought a set of centers for the lathe, it is the one with changeable tips, and paid $160 canadian. The set came without the seperator wedge in it. I took a pic of the open case, sent it to them, the next day they sent an email that they would refund my money. The carbide is very cheap..Inserts for less than $2 each for many sizes.

Downwindtracker2
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:34 pm
Location: B.C.

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by Downwindtracker2 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:12 pm

Here I'll speak not as a consumer, rather as an industrial end user. I would say Chinese should be able to make things better than Americans. The Chinese have much newer machines to work with, the workers are neither lazy nor stupid, and they have a never ending supply of engineers. But a cultural thing gets in the way, a "What can we get away with." creeps in. A lot checking is required.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers

Harold_V
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by Harold_V » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:39 am

Downwindtracker2 wrote: But a cultural thing gets in the way, a "What can we get away with." creeps in. A lot checking is required.
I tend to agree, although we, as a nation, are partially responsible for the dreadful level of quality that has been provided, due, in part, to our willingness to settle for low quality in the name of saving a few bucks. If we'd demand better, that's what we'd get, although likely at a somewhat elevated price.

Can't have it both ways. If one wants nice, clean fresh oats, they cost a little more than those that have already been run through the horse.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

RSG
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Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:59 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by RSG » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:51 am

Harold_V wrote: If one wants nice, clean fresh oats, they cost a little more than those that have already been run through the horse.

H
Classic! This quote pretty much sums it up!

I have lots of Chinese tooling as well and for the most part I'm very happy with it but one thing I'm not convinced on buying yet is their cutting tools/drills, at least the ones I have been exposed to from places like Busy Bee Tool. As a result I am willing to pay top dollar for NA (or the equivalent) as I have come to learn their value and can clearly see the results. I may only have a little hobby business but the time I save achieving better results on the machines means far less time doing hand work on the bench.
Vision is not seeing things as they are, but as they will be.

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neanderman
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by neanderman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:42 pm

Most of the Chinese stuff I've purchased has been fine. They certainly do have the capability to manufacture quality goods, I think a good check is to buy from respected importers who will back up your purchase.

Quality went to $%!& in the US when quarterly results started matter more than long term and management stopped investing in new infrastructure.

The 1980s era Camaro's were being built in a factory that dated to the 1920's. Meanwhile, Honda and Toyota were building cars in factories at least 30 years newer (some of which we paid for...).

We dug our own graves.
Ed

Le Blond Dual Drive
US-Burke Millrite MVI
Atlas 618
Files, snips and cold chisels

Proud denizen of the former "Machine Tool Capitol of the World"

Downwindtracker2
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:34 pm
Location: B.C.

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by Downwindtracker2 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:19 pm

Put another way, when share prices mean more than dividends.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers

John Hasler
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by John Hasler » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:37 pm

Downwindtracker2 wrote:Put another way, when share prices mean more than dividends.
For good reason. Dividends are taxed at the standard rate and are paid out of after tax earnings. Capital gains are taxed at less than half that even before allowing for deferrals and such. Thus rational shareholders want corporations to keep reinvesting earnings for as long as possible so that they can collect their share of the earnings as long-term capital gains rather than as dividends.

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