Cheap Tools from China....

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Downwindtracker2
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by Downwindtracker2 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:30 pm

I didn't know that. I look on stocks a bit warily, I grew up in Vancouver, the old headquarters of Moosepasture Mining. Stock manipulation based around mining explorations.

Well my coffee is finished, I better get back to headstock rebuild of my Taiwanese made lathe. They are sorta Chinese aren't they. If you are doing the belt and the seals, you can do bearing as well. 302xx, 62xx, nothing fancy here.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers

AllenH59
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by AllenH59 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:30 pm

I can see using brand name tools if all your work is chargeable. Then the customer pays for the tooling, so he might as well buy the best. To me tools are a means to an end. If they work for me I do not care where they came from. A hole drilled by a brand name bit is still just a hole.

John Hasler
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by John Hasler » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:09 pm

Downwindtracker2 wrote:I didn't know that. I look on stocks a bit warily, I grew up in Vancouver, the old headquarters of Moosepasture Mining. Stock manipulation based around mining explorations.
Well, you want to stay away from penny stocks, of course. I've had most of my investments in stocks (mostly index funds) for decades and I've averaged about a 10% rate of return. That's averaged over decades, of course. I ignore booms and crashes.
Well my coffee is finished, I better get back to headstock rebuild of my Taiwanese made lathe. They are sorta Chinese aren't they. If you are doing the belt and the seals, you can do bearing as well. 302xx, 62xx, nothing fancy here.
Taiwan is part of China according to the Chinese goverment. The Taiwanese don't agree. Taiwanese quality seems to be better than Chinese quality. It's complicated, though. Many of the better Chinese manufacturers are Taiwanese owned. Foxcon, the company that makes the products that Apple sells, is Taiwanese but has most of its factories in China.

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seal killer
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by seal killer » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:55 pm

John--

My Chinese machine tools (Grizzly) are of good quality, whatever that means. They repeat well and are rigid.

I have a Taiwanese saw that I REALLY like. But, my family is very partial to Taiwan, so I may be prejudiced.

--Bill
You are what you write.

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:22 pm

John Hasler wrote:Taiwan is part of China according to the Chinese goverment. The Taiwanese don't agree. Taiwanese quality seems to be better than Chinese quality. It's complicated, though. Many of the better Chinese manufacturers are Taiwanese owned. Foxcon, the company that makes the products that Apple sells, is Taiwanese but has most of its factories in China.
An interesting observation is that Chinese (communist China, that is) products intended for North American consumers tend to be of low quality. There are exceptions, of course, which have to do with the individual company that is selling the product in North America—Apple being one. Chinese products intended for industrial/commercial users tend to be different in that regard.

Case in point: the traction motors currently in my locomotive are products of a Chinese company sold under the brand name Dynamic Fluid Components. A while back, I was monkeying around with gearing and wanted to try out a larger displacement motor. The brand that I wanted wasn't available, so I opted for these motors. I was pleasantly surprised by how well they were made (smooth castings, accurate machining, etc.—they are even painted, which is very unusual) and how well they performed. One thing I immediately noticed after changing out the motors was when pushing the loco by hand it rolled more easily than it did with the Prince (made in USA) motors I previously had in the unit. Also, the general behavior of the unit under power suggested that the Dynamic motors were more efficient.

As it turns out, Dynamic's hydraulic components are very popular with manufacturers outside of North America. So it would seem the usual thoughts about poor Chinese quality are necessarily true with their industrial products.
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spro
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by spro » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:49 am

There was a time when folks were complaining about Chinese quality. I said just wait until they are quality . Then there is something to worry about. We have seen this happen and there is something else about how children are tought-young fertile brains.
I don't think China wants to destroy us outright. They killed many of our guys after WWII during their soviet control. Korea and 'Nam and other things happening now. It was war and it was horrible on the backs of unknown soldiers. I don't, can't get into that now.
China remains a powerhouse that sells us machine tools and many things But they have something else going on. All the lowest bidder of the most advanced cell phone technology built in China etc.
Like Lenin said; We will sell them the ropes to hang themselves.

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mcostello
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by mcostello » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:18 pm

I have a Friend that bought a (supposed) quality Chinese printing press. $250,000.Supposed to surpass the quality of His old press, another $250,000+ in repairs and it is still an iffy machine.

MrWhoopee
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by MrWhoopee » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:34 pm

Chinese quality is coming up fast. I'm very happy with the 4x6 bandsaw from HF, still using the original blade even though I bought 2 bi-metal blades.
I've recently bought numerous indexable turning and boring tools off AliExpress.com. All have been very cheap but well made. I purchased some CNMG 432 inserts for less than $1.20 each. Put one to the test today, turning A10 with a heavily interrupted cut. Held up just fine, still usable.

AllenH59
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by AllenH59 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:39 am

i bought a bunch of those carbides for my holders. was very impressed.

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WesHowe
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by WesHowe » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:12 am

We are looking at the state of Chinese industry from a limited perspective when we talk about machine tools. Basically, they are providing us with 30-year-old technology efficiently manufactured. Aside from custom assembly of foreign designs (think Apple); items like carbide tools, stepper motors, single board computers, telephone switches and so on are all a generation old.

What is of more concern to me is the purchases of whole industries by Chinese companies. They will get all the trade secrets and processes needed to replicate the whole thing in China. Better results than industrial espionage, for which the Chinese are world leaders. They are not interested in running American or European companies. That is where we are selling them the rope to hang ourselves with.

MrWhoopee
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by MrWhoopee » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:04 am

WesHowe wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:12 am
What is of more concern to me is the purchases of whole industries by Chinese companies. They will get all the trade secrets and processes needed to replicate the whole thing in China. Better results than industrial espionage, for which the Chinese are world leaders. They are not interested in running American or European companies. That is where we are selling them the rope to hang ourselves with.
This is the free market economy at its finest. Lurking inside every Chinese communist industrialist is a ruthless capitalist.

Mr Ron
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Re: Cheap Tools from China....

Post by Mr Ron » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:53 pm

Many of my tools are from China. I have a vertical mill, a Powermatic jointer/planer and a 3 HP cabinet saw that are from Taiwan. They are of the best quality; no complaints. Other small tools like Harbor Freight quality tools are usually made in China (mainland) and vary in quality. I have found some tools that are OK and some that are just plain junk. Those junk tools are usually easy to spot if you are tool savvy. Tools from China are of two categories; one for the non tool consumer and the other for the industrial user. Tools used by industrial users; that includes amateur machinists are usually good enough to qualify as a serious metal working tool as opposed to a tool that would primarily be used by a diy'er. The tools in the bargain bins of most hardware stores qualify for the latter and should not even be considered by a serious user of tools.
I must tell you an amusing story. I was working on my car a long time ago and needed a wrench that I didn't have. I ran down to my hardware store and found the size wrench I needed in the bargain bin. I returned to the job I was doing and when I tried to loosen the nut with the wrench, all it did was spread apart the faces of the wrench. I had to laugh. That wrench would have been OK in a child's first tool set.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi

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