Bits Spin in Hand Drills

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by SteveHGraham »

Glad this thread turned to be productive. I didn't have high hopes of fixing the problem.
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Downwindtracker2
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

I'm a retired millwright. In comparison, machinists don't drill holes, chuckle. When was the last time they had to use a drill motor ? In my younger days, I, and few other guys,have built a couple of pulp and paper mills.

A drill is most likely to slip or break your wrist as it punches through and catches. It doesn't matter much if it's one inch plate or 16 guage. The best millwright I ever worked with, he was the Wayne Gretzky of millwrights, taught me there are two ways to deal with it. Either push hard or ease off an let the speed eventually work it's way through. Both work.

I tried my theory yesterday of sloppy chucks as being the reason 3-hole works with what had been still in the box NOS Jacobs I had replaced on my 3/8 drill motor. It was at least 25 years old as I had inherited it with my bench when an old timer retired in our shop. No slop, none what so ever, and no movement on the other holes either.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
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NP317
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by NP317 »

Think Drill Press.
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spro
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by spro »

I think that, if we all had 25 years old NOS Jacobs chucks, we wouldn't have this discussion.
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Steggy
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by Steggy »

Downwindtracker2 wrote:Seriously, the tighten all three holes doesn't make any sense. Except that you have a lateral pressure on the center of the chuck, picking up the chucks slack.
It makes complete sense if you understand what is going on inside the chuck. You should note that chuck manufacturers also advise tightening with all three holes. They ought to know how their product works, eh?
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Harold_V
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by Harold_V »

earlgo wrote:Oh, and the hex shanked drills work great until the staking that holds the drill to the shank comes loose. Happened on a cheapo set but not the DeWalt set, yet. I suppose brazing the drill into the shank is cost prohibitive.
I expect that's a comment more related to poor quality than procedure. Decent drills are not soldered, staked or brazed, they are one piece. Because it's desirable to keep the shanks soft, they are induction hardened, stopping just past the flutes.
Excuse the ramble.
Au contraire!
One of the ways people learn things is to read comments related to the topic at hand. I do not see your posts as a ramble--not ever.

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Harold_V
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by Harold_V »

spro wrote:I think that, if we all had 25 years old NOS Jacobs chucks, we wouldn't have this discussion.
I have a few that are older. Makes no difference. Tightening all three holes is a function whereby slack is addressed, and all drill chucks have slack (clearance).
Simple to prove. Tighten one hole. Then tighten another. Then another. Repeat. At some point, there is nothing gained, but with the first iteration, I would be more than surprised if there wasn't movement (greater tightening) with each hole.

H
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Downwindtracker2
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

Well Harold , chuckle, be prepared to be more than surprised. That's what my test of the NOS was. If we were standing in person , there would be now some jokes and laughter. In a very few years, I guess as old age and arthritis set in, I wouldn't be able to do the test effectively.

As I've said , I 'm impressed with ratcheting hand tightening on my DeWalt cordless. But with it being only 20volt cordless, it's hard to tell just how good it is.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
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liveaboard
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by liveaboard »

I never had trouble with hand drills, not enough torque to spin the bit.
Oh, you mean ELECTRIC hand drills.
hahaha

I use the 3-hole system; I agree, it makes a difference.

Re Bosch tools; all are not equal! They make a professional line, and a cheapo line of tools.

My Metabo has a good keyless chuck that pretty much doesn't slip; used forward.
But in reverse it opens and releases driver bits, which is aggravating.
Other drill chucks don't do that; yet don't grab as well forward.
So I choose the drill depending on the job, mostly for the chuck.
I assume we each have a large selection of electric hand held drills.
Downwindtracker2
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

We called them drill motors, but then were millwrights, also old English. In England we would be called fitters . Here in Canada our trade is much more broad .
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
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BadDog
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by BadDog »

Harold_V wrote:I expect that's a comment more related to poor quality than procedure. Decent drills are not soldered, staked or brazed, they are one piece. Because it's desirable to keep the shanks soft, they are induction hardened, stopping just past the flutes.
If I'm not missing my guess, I think he's talking about the 1/4" drive "quick change" bits that go in the ubiquitous cordless impact driver type locking holders. They are generally smaller diameter, and of composite construction with the hex drive affixed to the bit. They work great when you use the locking holders, pop out the driver bit, pop in the drill, pop in the counter sink, back to the bit to drive the fastener. That's about as good as it gets, unless I can conveniently keep all pre-mounted on motors easily at hand. Mine are middlin quality made by Makita, and they work fine when you need starter holes in wood and other non-taxing jobs. But the wobble too much for much use beyond that.

I also have some NOS Jacobs chucks in rotation on my better drill motors (also what I learned to call them), and while it is not as pronounced as cheaper or well worn, it does make a difference. As was mentioned the really nice old Jacobs (and others I'm sure) don't give much indication that anything has happened, but particularly on S&D bits, or even more normal jobber bits, using all 3 holes does make a difference. If my memory doesn't fail me, I don't think I've ever slipped a bit in a good chuck when I tightened it that way. And every time I *DO* slip one, and have to deal with the bur, usually when I've had to swap bits repeatedly or otherwise aggravated and rushed, I invariably think to myself "should taken the time to do it right". That or I'm using one of the keyless variety, the ones on the purportedly "premium" cordless drill motors (like my Makita LXT 18V) are still only "acceptable" at best, and most of my damaged jobber drill got that way in the cordless...
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Harold_V
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Re: Bits Spin in Hand Drills

Post by Harold_V »

BadDog wrote:
Harold_V wrote:I expect that's a comment more related to poor quality than procedure. Decent drills are not soldered, staked or brazed, they are one piece. Because it's desirable to keep the shanks soft, they are induction hardened, stopping just past the flutes.
If I'm not missing my guess, I think he's talking about the 1/4" drive "quick change" bits that go in the ubiquitous cordless impact driver type locking holders.
Ahhh! That make sense. Because I don't own any, nor have I used them, I was not familiar with that particular product. Thanks for the enlightenment!

H
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