LED Shop Lighting

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Mr Ron
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Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by Mr Ron » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:30 am

John Hasler wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:11 pm
Mr Ron wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:19 pm
I purchased some Barrina 4' T5 strip lights, 6500K, from Amazon for under $40.00 in a pack of 6. Very bright. I ordered more. They also have T8, 8' LED replacements for fluorescent fixtures for less than $100 for a pack of 12.
That's a better deal than my shop-made ones.
Correction: A pack of 12 8' T-8's is $179.00
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi

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seal killer
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Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by seal killer » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:22 pm

All--

Thanks to discussions on this forum, my 2000 sq ft garage and shop is all LED (as is the house). I have four 8' strips over each of the three bays--each bay has its own switch--and 10 eight foot strips in the shop controlled by three switches.

I bought them from Home Depot. They were $79 each if you bought ten or more.

The place is very well lit and I really like the LEDs.

--Bill
You are what you write.

TRX
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Location: Central Arkansas

Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by TRX » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:11 pm

Last year I bought a 6-pack of LED bulbs to fit my 4-foot shop lights. I finally got around to taking the first fixture down and apart.

Hm. I have no idea how old it was, but the plastic ends were snapped into divots in the metal housing. Even with a long, thin screwdriver I broke most of the mounting tabs. It'll need epoxy or self-tapping screws for them to stay together now.

There were *three* fairly bulky transformers as well as some capacitors hidden inside. I cut all that out as the directions I'd printed out when I got the LEDs said to do, and then... granted the people who wrote the instructions probably didn't speak English as a first language, but the drawings were useless too. I rigged up a test cord and threw some sparks before determining the tubes power from end to end instead of two pins at the same end as the drawing implied.

Some soldering and taping, yep, both bulbs still light up. I used some white "appliance epoxy" to repaint the reflector, which had turned dark with age. Once I screw it all back together it ought to be ready for use.

I have several hours of head-scratching in this so far, plus paint, screws, solder, etc. The always-on-sale-for-$19 lights from Horror Fright look like a pretty good deal now.

And what I learned from disassembling *this* light won't help me much, because I'm pretty sure all 7 of the rest are different from each other...

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NP317
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Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by NP317 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:32 pm

Your experience is why I purchased new two-tube LED fixtures from COSTSO.
Ready to plug in and light my world.
My time is important to me. And it was a new building.
RussN

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BadDog
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by BadDog » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:39 pm

On LED lights, I've stated in the past that I have been very happy with the T8 drop-in LED replacements (directly replace T12 or T8 removing the ballast). I was absolutely loving them, and had bought some bulk boxes of the things to have on hand to replace as tubes/ballasts died. But it's not standing the test of time. I don't recall when I first started the conversions, a few years, but my entire house is now running those T8 LED tubes. Unfortunately, I've had 3 fail in the last 6 months in much the same mode as fluorescents (flickering and failing to come up to full light). That represents a roughly 10% failure rate after only a few years, which is no better than (worse IMO) than the fluorescents they replaced. These were seemingly well regarded/reviewed import tubes, but perhaps like me, they just hadn't yet gotten a few years in. Certainly not the very low maintenance items I expected them to be. I'm starting to no longer be a fan. We'll see how the next 6+mo go...
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

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BadDog
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Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by BadDog » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:43 pm

Oh, and you can get bulk T12 "tombstones" for very cheap. I've harvested a fair number from old fixtures as I come across them, just in case.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

Harold_V
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Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by Harold_V » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:04 am

When the T12 8' tubes were reported as no longer being an option, I purchased three cases of them for under $30/case. I had questioned that decision until now. Reading that you are experiencing failures make me reconsider, and, perhaps, be happy with my choice.

On the subject of failures---I made the light switches for the lighting system in our house. The system is marketed by LiteTouch, but is old-- purchased when they used Mylar switches, and designed around the castle. I brought the lighting system with me when we moved from Utah to Washington. I understood that the Mylar switches were troublesome, and that that the switches in my possession were not appropriate for the house, having been provided for the lighting arrangement for the castle. Armed with that knowledge, I used the original boards from the switches and built all new switch assemblies, including making the engraved faceplate. I also installed new LED indicators, replacing the original amber LED's with blue ones.

I have experienced a few failures of the LED's. I can attribute some of them to a lack of grounding the faceplate (which I have since grounded), but a couple of the failures are not for apparent reasons. I am now understanding that LED's have issues, so that you're experiencing some failures makes sense to me, and make me feel a little better about the three cases of lamps I purchased. I have a grand total of 48 twin lamp 2 tube 8' fixtures in the shop and garages. I expect I'll continue to use the fluorescent tubes, thanks to your report.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

John Hasler
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Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by John Hasler » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:17 am

I've not yet had LED fluorescent tube replacements in service for long enough to have any useful data on failures (none yet). However, for me they have one huge advantage: they work in the cold. I've been replacing incandescents and CFLs[1] with LED bulbs for quite a while and have seen only one failure, an obvious manufacturing defect.

The wearout mode of incandescents (barring damage and manufacturing defects) is simply a slowly increasing probability of burnout as the filament evaporates. Fluorescents wear out by slowly dimming. Eventually they fail to start, but there is a long period during which they start reliably. LED lamps for lighting wear out by slowly dimming (much more slowly than incandescents or fluorescents). End of life is defined as when the light output drops below a specified level. Rate of wearout depends quite strongly on temperature. I would expect the ones that directly replace fluorescents without requiring removal of the ballast to be less reliable.

Small indicator LEDs when used correctly have no inherent wearout mechanism. Failures are always due to manufacturing defects, damage, or overdriving. They are pretty resistant to ESD. In my experience they are about as reliable as metal film resistors. I've never used blue ones, though.

[1] My experience with CFLs was that, despite claims, they were no more reliable than incandescents and did not work in the cold.

John Hasler
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Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by John Hasler » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:39 pm

TRX writes:
> Some soldering and taping...

*Don't solder*. Use wire nuts or compression connectors.

TRX
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Location: Central Arkansas

Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by TRX » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:05 pm

John Hasler wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:17 am
LED lamps for lighting wear out by slowly dimming (much more slowly than incandescents or fluorescents). End of life is defined as when the light output drops below a specified level.
Incandescents simply quit working one day.

The CFLs all died with, apparently, power supply failures - blackened bases, and foam ceiling tile melted over one fixture.

The LEDs also die with power supply failures; about half of the time with the base where the power supply is located scorched or melted. As far as I can tell the LEDs were all fine.

It got to where we were leery about stepping outside to take the trash out or something, in case of fire. Now that incandescents are available locally again, we're reconverting back to those.

In the shop the lights are in metal fixtures hung from chains; unlike the house, fiery suicide isn't likely to ignite the structure.

And, yes, I'm aware most people have no problems with either CFLs or LEDs. I think they somehow manage to send all the defectives to us...

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warmstrong1955
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Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by warmstrong1955 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:49 pm

On fluorescent to LED 4' & 8' tube replacements:
All the LED's I have installed, have been ballast bypass. I removed the ballasts, and rewired the fixtures.
I replaced all in my wife's business 4 years ago, and have replaced none.
I've been replacing my shop lights as ballasts die. Two LED's are about the same price as a ballast.

On E26 incandescent to lED replacements:
Again, at her shop, I replaced most of the light fixtures, and all of the bulbs, which were both incandescent & CFL's....and a multitude of wattage's.
No failures to date, other than one that was defective right out of the box. Amazon replaced that one.

I have four LED E26 bulbs fail here at home. Three were made by 'Lights Of America".
They should re-brand themselves, to 'Darks Of America'. No more from them for me.
The other one was a 100 watt equivalent on a desk lamp. It started flickering now & then. 'Amazon Basics' brand, and 3 years old give or take.

So far, the LED's win. More light, brighter light, and use far less energy.
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.

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NP317
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Re: LED Shop Lighting

Post by NP317 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:20 pm

Armstrong said:
"So far, the LED's win. More light, brighter light, and use far less energy."

Same story at my shop and home. Win, Win, Win.
RussN

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