Could I get a history lesson and guidance about dro's?
Re: Could I get a history lesson and guidance about dro's?
I don't even know it was used to measure coatings, that's only one of possibly hundreds of other items it might have been used for. For sure it would have been very expensive when new, possibly even state of the art, unless you can identify what it was used for and come up with a working gauge head as well I'm not sure what good it might be.A floating decimal point was probably pretty cool when it was made but about standard on even the cheapest dro's today. I can say for any dro system the display isn't a huge part of the cost. Computing power and multiple built in programs are cheap now. Scales and the reader heads are going to be half or more of the cost of any system. Sometimes there a lot more.
Re: Could I get a history lesson and guidance about dro's?
Thanks for the advice, sorry about the double post, didn't mean for it to go down that way. How long have you been into this hobby? Because I've been wondering if the price of the dro's and scales have been going down like other electronics or staying about the same? When I look at the price of a digital caliper you can find at the home depot then look at the price of the $350 entry ones you speak of, then look at the price of a Newall I get confused.pete wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:19 am Fwiw I spent a bit of time checking prices on an entry level but proper dro. Precision Matthews offer a 2 axis system with 8" x 22" scale travels. Depends on how they measure there scales, but you have to add half or sometimes more of the reader head length at each end of the machines travels what ever they are to have the scales cover the machines full travel. $350.00 Yes to some that sounds like a lot. One way or another this hobby is and always will be expensive. I paid $3800 for my 4 axis Newall system and micro syn scales. Even if you value your time at almost nothing your going to be into a real but used system for that or more unless you get very very lucky. And there's no way to tell how long it will work or if you can find the repair parts if it does fail. I don't see where anyone is going to sell a properly working used dro and scales for less than $350 today. If it was priced less than that? You can bet somethings wrong that there not willing to admit to.
Re: Could I get a history lesson and guidance about dro's?
I guess I've been learning this hobby for well over 35 + years, still a whole lot to learn but that's what makes it interesting. Learning as much as possible about metrology is just a side hobby of mine. DRO's are a bit different than most other shop gear. Prices have fluctuated a bit, but if you add up the built in programs today and the reliability along with some pretty astonishing accuracy were getting a lot more for about the same dollar value. Since dro's aren't normaly needed on industrial CNC machines the market is very much reduced over what it once was. That tends to keep prices higher than they should be I suppose. Mostly the prices have stayed about stable at the industrial level of quality. The much cheaper off shore systems weren't around when I started or I would have had one a long time ago.
Prices? I've got one $65 digital caliper that I save for any rougher and dirtier work. My others are Mitutoyo dial or digital. Those even when I'm being careful I can only be confident I'm within .002"-.003". If I really need better, that's what good micrometers are for. Likely my caliper measurments are a bit better than that sometimes, but it's impossible to be 100% sure so you use better when it's needed so you can then be sure. I've got one 4" and one 6" set of digital calipers I was given for a couple of magazine subscriptions years ago. Tested on my gage blocks and being very careful I got measurements of more than .010" variation on the same block with both of them. Free was too expensive since they can't be trusted. Plus they eat batterys every few months. There in my opinion worthless as a useable tool even at that free price.
Newalls basic scales and reader heads are the sperosyn. I decided on there system after a whole lot of research over on the Practical Machinist forums. There not the worlds best, there accurate, dependable, one of the easiest systems to mount and I wanted the 5 micron microsyn scales and reader heads with a built in 4 axis display. Since I'll do some wood butchery on my mill going with the magnetic scales seemed to be the best idea for me. At the time Newalls DP 900 system had just hit the market and it offered a 4 axis display. I could get better accuracy by using a different dro and going to glass scales, but 5 microns is good enough for what I'm doing. If I did need better, given some time there's other tools and methods I can use so I could if I had to. One thing to remember, any dro no matter how accurate will not produce perfectly sized parts every time. All machine tools and the cutting tools flex away from the cutting forces to greater or lesser amounts. The lighter the machine and tool and heavier the cut the more flex and inaccuracy you'll have. Knowing your machine and how much it might move can help you adjust on the fly, but technique is still more important than anything else. Good accurate tools make the job a whole lot easier and faster tho.
Properly understanding something called the Cartesian Coordinate System is a basic requirement today. Even with CNC. Just reading about it and actualy understanding what it is and can do are two different things. Learning how to use it was a big step up the learning curve for me. And it's needed while using the machines dials or the worlds best dro. A dro removes the need to account for the backlash in the machine. In my opinion learning how to make good accurate parts before getting a dro is a good thing. Learning how to calculate your own cutting speeds and feeds is just as important.
Prices? I've got one $65 digital caliper that I save for any rougher and dirtier work. My others are Mitutoyo dial or digital. Those even when I'm being careful I can only be confident I'm within .002"-.003". If I really need better, that's what good micrometers are for. Likely my caliper measurments are a bit better than that sometimes, but it's impossible to be 100% sure so you use better when it's needed so you can then be sure. I've got one 4" and one 6" set of digital calipers I was given for a couple of magazine subscriptions years ago. Tested on my gage blocks and being very careful I got measurements of more than .010" variation on the same block with both of them. Free was too expensive since they can't be trusted. Plus they eat batterys every few months. There in my opinion worthless as a useable tool even at that free price.
Newalls basic scales and reader heads are the sperosyn. I decided on there system after a whole lot of research over on the Practical Machinist forums. There not the worlds best, there accurate, dependable, one of the easiest systems to mount and I wanted the 5 micron microsyn scales and reader heads with a built in 4 axis display. Since I'll do some wood butchery on my mill going with the magnetic scales seemed to be the best idea for me. At the time Newalls DP 900 system had just hit the market and it offered a 4 axis display. I could get better accuracy by using a different dro and going to glass scales, but 5 microns is good enough for what I'm doing. If I did need better, given some time there's other tools and methods I can use so I could if I had to. One thing to remember, any dro no matter how accurate will not produce perfectly sized parts every time. All machine tools and the cutting tools flex away from the cutting forces to greater or lesser amounts. The lighter the machine and tool and heavier the cut the more flex and inaccuracy you'll have. Knowing your machine and how much it might move can help you adjust on the fly, but technique is still more important than anything else. Good accurate tools make the job a whole lot easier and faster tho.
Properly understanding something called the Cartesian Coordinate System is a basic requirement today. Even with CNC. Just reading about it and actualy understanding what it is and can do are two different things. Learning how to use it was a big step up the learning curve for me. And it's needed while using the machines dials or the worlds best dro. A dro removes the need to account for the backlash in the machine. In my opinion learning how to make good accurate parts before getting a dro is a good thing. Learning how to calculate your own cutting speeds and feeds is just as important.
Re: Could I get a history lesson and guidance about dro's?
If you want history, look at this site:
https://www.heidenhain.com/en_US/
They are the Rolls Royce of DRO's and also own several other brands.
https://www.heidenhain.com/en_US/
They are the Rolls Royce of DRO's and also own several other brands.
Re: Could I get a history lesson and guidance about dro's?
Thanks for all those answers! So you've been doing serious machining a long time! What do you run for a mill? A Bridgeport? for the 4th axis on your Newall is it for a rotary table? Or do you use it for the quill? Are you good at machining fast? I've been trying to get progressively faster, just got a stubby drill set so I don't have to crank the head up so high.pete wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:13 am
Newalls basic scales and reader heads are the sperosyn. I decided on there system after a whole lot of research over on the Practical Machinist forums. There not the worlds best, there accurate, dependable, one of the easiest systems to mount and I wanted the 5 micron microsyn scales and reader heads with a built in 4 axis display. Since I'll do some wood butchery on my mill going with the magnetic scales seemed to be the best idea for me. At the time Newalls DP 900 system had just hit the market and it offered a 4 axis display. I could get better accuracy by using a different dro and going to glass scales, but 5 microns is good enough for what I'm doing. If I did need better, given some time there's other tools and methods I can use so I could if I had to. One thing to remember, any dro no matter how accurate will not produce perfectly sized parts every time. All machine tools and the cutting tools flex away from the cutting forces to greater or lesser amounts. The lighter the machine and tool and heavier the cut the more flex and inaccuracy you'll have. Knowing your machine and how much it might move can help you adjust on the fly, but technique is still more important than anything else. Good accurate tools make the job a whole lot easier and faster tho.
Re: Could I get a history lesson and guidance about dro's?
Thanks Ronald!RONALD wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:09 am If you want history, look at this site:
https://www.heidenhain.com/en_US/
They are the Rolls Royce of DRO's and also own several other brands.
Re: Could I get a history lesson and guidance about dro's?
My mill? It's a Taiwan built 3/4 sized Bridgeport clone. Weight and size is an issue in my shop. At the time it was the only mill I could find at it's weight that offered the built in head feeds for boring. To do that they added what looks to be a full size head to the smaller column and table. No rotary 4th axis just the X,Y spindle and knee. I'm slowly working on figuring out a proper rotary dro, newall offer a stand alone single axis dro for rotary but no rotary encoder. Getting that encoder to fit inside either my RT or dividing head is proving to be a head scratcher. Fast? Not really, it's a hobby for me and what I enjoy so time isn't that important. Making less mistakes is so that's why the dro and why I'd love to have the same for dividing.