How do I use a shaper?

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Glenn Brooks
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How do I use a shaper?

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Hello all,

Iam thinking about buying a nice little 7” Atlas shaper. Problem is I need to machine some new 16” bolsters to rebuild a bunch of old trucks Iam working on.

Can one machine 16” stock with a small shaper? Maybe do one end, then flip the work? How do you hold reasonable tolerance or alignment??

Is this feasible to think about doing???
Thanks,
Glenn
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choprboy
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by choprboy »

I would think no... and not for the most immediately thought reason. First, with a 7" shaper you would have to take at least 3 passes across a 16" surface (assuming you can not machine it in a shorter dimension). That's not too bad as you can adjust both the length and position of the stroke, along with different lengths of tooling off the clapper (at the expense of rigidity), to make multiple passes. Create surface, readjust the length/position/tool/vise for the next surface, re-indicate flat to your just created surface, create the second surface... repeat. A lot of work but do-able

But the second problem is really going to bite you... Where does the chip go? The chip needs to break off at the end of the stroke. If you start on an edge and end in the material, then the chip from the next stroke is going to ram into material from the previous stroke. You could start in the material and end off the edge, but that going to cause a lot of hard digging at the stroke start. If you could cross-cut before shaping (or there are pre-existing break features in the part), then your chip could break off in a trough part way along the length the material (though you'd have to keep the trough clean to avoid jambing up).
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Harold_V
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by Harold_V »

Glenn Brooks wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:12 pm Is this feasible to think about doing???
Thanks,
Glenn
Not in my opinion. Stopping a cut before leaving the piece leads to issues that are best avoided (high probability of chipping the cutting edge), so if you have plans of machining surfaces that are longer than the stroke of the given machine, I think you'd not be very happy with the results achieved. Another reason is that you'd be hard pressed to turn parts and have them in proper alignment. Close wouldn't be acceptable, and that's about all you could expect. Blending a cut to make it acceptable visually would be extremely taxing.

If you hope to use a shaper successfully, it would be prudent to buy one sized according to your real needs. Be advised, they get heavy real fast, though. I shudder to think what a 24" shaper weighs.

I've always had a vision of owning a (quality) 16" shaper. It would be quite useful for limited applications.

H
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SteveM
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by SteveM »

Harold_V wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:49 pm I shudder to think what a 24" shaper weighs.
I think Adam Booth's 36" G&E shaper came in at something like 6,000-8,000 pounds.

Steve
Glenn Brooks
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Hmm, so good comments. As always! I did not think about the chip problem.

Now I am wondering about turning the bolster 90* on their axis and cutting across the short edge, instead of in and out along the whole length and flipping the work end for end. This might work with a short 2” stroke. Although I have no clue how long the travel of the table is. Need to ask about that. Also go find Rudy Komphof’s shaper video.

Of course I could do this on my vertical milling machine also. Maybe I don’t need this machine as much as I thought I did. must think up some new uses while the fever is still strong.

GPB
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SteveM
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by SteveM »

Glenn Brooks wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:38 pmMaybe I don’t need this machine as much as I thought I did.
BLASPHEME!
Glenn Brooks wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:38 pmmust think up some new uses while the fever is still strong.
There's probably nothing better for putting an internal keyway into something (without having to have one of every broach and bushing size on hand).

Interesting bit of shaper history: I was at the Charles River Museum of Industry and there was a shaper running. I asked why was the shaper invented. The reason was that it was much easier back then (late 1700's) to make an accurate flat surface (such as the dovetail on the ram) than to make an accurate and strong bearing for a revolving tool.

Steve
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BadDog
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by BadDog »

SteveM wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:35 pmThere's probably nothing better for putting an internal keyway into something (without having to have one of every broach and bushing size on hand).
I would argue that a slotter works better... 8) :P

I always wanted a shaper to produce nice finish flat surfaces, and more so to do things like dovetails for tool blocks and slides (and tooling fixtures). Sadly the only things I have found local are either the 7" variety that are too small for my needs (mostly off-road trucks), or the 20" Cinci's and the like that show up on rare occasion. I really want a 16" or so. But I haven't even seen a single stripped model in any condition, much less the optioned out universal of my dreams. I sure do love to watch shapers run. Or even more than that, the old flat belt swapper planers!
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RONALD
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by RONALD »

As I have written here before, one of my big mistakes was acquiring a 16" Kelly Shaper.

In the late 70's it was part of a deal where I got a B&S #1-1/2 1908 Mill, a Rockwell 20" drill press, and the shaper.

I took it apart, lugged it down into my basement shop, put a new single phase motor on it, cleaned, painted, and it now sits taking up space.

I've used it only a couple of times since. I was naive, I had no idea how reaaaallly obsolete shapers were; the 1908 mill has been used many times!
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BadDog
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by BadDog »

For my part, I have no illusions that it would become the workhorse of my shop, or even justify its existence and the space it takes up. But like the slotter on the back of my 2J, it's something I would like to have "just in case", and "just because". And as I mentioned, I love to watch and listen to them run! Isn't that reason enough? I wish you were close, I would love to get that out of your way.
Russ
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tornitore45
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by tornitore45 »

As I have written here before, one of my big mistakes was acquiring a 16" Kelly Shaper.
The only thing wrong I see with that shaper is the color. :lol:

I like shapers, if only for sentimental reasons. We had one in shop 7th and 8th grade, and the teacher let me work on it doing some special project.
Mauro Gaetano
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BClemens
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by BClemens »

tornitore45 wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:11 pm
The only thing wrong I see with that shaper is the color. :lol:

Would that be that 'industrial machine pink' that we all admire so much?
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tornitore45
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Re: How do I use a shaper?

Post by tornitore45 »

Would that be that 'industrial machine pink' that we all admire so much?
In Italy we have a name for a wide range of reddish pink, it loosely translate as "Drunken's Upchuck" :lol:

But, of course Different strokes for different folks, what float your boat.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
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