unique water pump

Topics include, Machine Tools & Tooling, Precision Measuring, Materials and their Properties, Electrical discussions related to machine tools, setups, fixtures and jigs and other general discussion related to amateur machining.

Moderators: GlennW, Harold_V

reubenT
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Spencer TN USA

unique water pump

Post by reubenT »

found an interesting design for a water pump, supposed to deliver plenty of volume and pressure with very little power consumption, the figure I can find is 30 GPM at 250 psi with 250 watt input. The resulting water flow can be used to generate power with a pelton turbine and end up with a good bit of excess power. If the figure I found is accurate, potential output calculates at 3227 watts minus inefficiency losses. Involves making hydrogen/oxygen gas from water with a hydroxy cell, then using that as fuel in what amounts to an internal combustion water piston engine. Relatively slow cycling (compared to a normal IC engine) according to the time required for water to flow through 2 check valves in and out. So the efficiency between gas production and water flow might be way beyond a vane or piston pump run on some rotary force. So where's the energy gain? Don't know for sure but it looks interesting. May be gain in the explosion of hydrogen. And a means of utilizing a lot more energy from the explosion than previously developed. A normal IC engine is I suspect way less efficient than we are led to believe. Been hunting for suitable parts to build one and found them, at prices that are kind of high. I already have the cell to make hydroxy, so that's no issue. But high pressure gas/air solenoid valves at $600 -$700 ea. cheaper ones either can't handle the pressure that will be present or are too small orifice if they can and would excessively slow down the cycle time. Even single pipe fittings at $150. ea. is a bit much. One picture of the unit has cheap valves on it, I ordered one and took it apart, it obviously won't work under much pressure, the picture of the thing operating in experimental mode with manual control has a hand ball valve on it, so obviously they tried it with the cheap valves and they didn't work. But it was creating a powerful blast of water when it ignites. One valve operates at low pressure but needs to hold against at least 1000 psi when closed, the other needs to operate with at least 250 psi differential and also hold 1000 when closed. (could be up to 1200 psi when the gas explodes) So here goes an experimental construction project as I can fit it inbetween other duties. I have a section of 3" galvanized pipe, so starting with that, need to create a threaded end cap with two pipe fittings off of it, I can weld a plate on the bottom and pipe thread it for 1" pipe to put the two water check valves in. The 2 solenoid air/gas valves on top for pressure relief and gas insertion. Need a custom spark plug that can handle a plasma arc, I can make that with a tig welding rod and deck board in a pipe fitting, the arc is made with ignition coil and charged capacitor, the capacitor dumps through the high voltage arc increasing the current for a very reliable ignition, provided the plug terminals can handle it. Then a sensor on the side to detect water lever and trigger the electronic control to operate the valves and ignition in suitable sequence. sensor can be an ordinary spark plug with tang removed and threaded region cut back a bit, and a resistance bridge on it to turn on a transistor when water hits it. Already tried that and made it work for boiler water level control. The control electronics can be either analog or digital, think I'll start with analog until the timing sequence is worked out. The main issue is those expensive valves. Been trying to figure out how I could make them. One operates in the gas line to let hydroxy into the chamber, the other just vents to atmosphere to release internal pressure and allow water to flow in. So I'm thinking of a poppet valve for the gas inlet valve, small engine style. But almost need a balanced valve of some kind to release the internal pressure of 250 psi. and have large enough opening to let it off fairly quickly. Unless I can use a poppet there as well and manage to break it from it's seat under the pressure with a solenoid. But I think a pressure balanced valve would be much better. Of course the rest of it would be standard equipment for pelton wheel operation, a water needle valve nozzle and spoon wheel driving a generator. Maybe a closed air/water chamber in between to soak up the surges and give even delivery pressure.
Magicniner
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 4:40 am

Re: unique water pump

Post by Magicniner »

reubenT wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:52 am found an interesting design for a water pump, supposed to deliver plenty of volume and pressure with very little power consumption, the figure I can find is 30 GPM at 250 psi with 250 watt input. The resulting water flow can be used to generate power with a pelton turbine and end up with a good bit of excess power.
Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha.................................

I'll let you have my plans for an Anti-Gravity machine to run from your Over-Unity Efficiency Machine, just send me $50 :lol:
John Hasler
Posts: 1852
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:05 pm
Location: Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: unique water pump

Post by John Hasler »

reubenT writes:
found an interesting design for a water pump, supposed to deliver plenty of volume and pressure with very little power consumption, the figure I can find is 30 GPM at 250 psi with 250 watt input.

3262 watts out with 250 watts in? That's a perpetual motion machine. Not going to happen.
User avatar
Harold_V
Posts: 20231
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: unique water pump

Post by Harold_V »

You're kidding, right? :o

The laws of physics, not man made, but man observed, dictate that one can not recover more energy than has been expended, and losses occur, regardless of the method used in the process.

Said another way, if you think you can get more out of a quart jar than a quart, there is much left for you to learn.

Don't invest in those high pressure solenoid valves. You'll just be tossing hard earned money for nothing.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
User avatar
liveaboard
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: southern Portugal
Contact:

Re: unique water pump

Post by liveaboard »

Harold_V wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:07 pm if you think you can get more out of a quart jar than a quart, there is much left for you to learn.
H
An excellent explanation of thermodynamics!
I'm going to remember that for future perpetual motion arguments.
reubenT
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:04 pm
Location: Spencer TN USA

Re: unique water pump

Post by reubenT »

You are forgetting something. Something that only a few people research and realize exists. Something that Nicola Tesla called radient energy. It took me awhile to figure out what it is and how it works, but I think I have a pretty good idea now. And while the laws of physics are true, they are based on a closed loop system of energy transfer. With enough research and experimentation we discover that there's a lot more going on in this universe than closed loop systems. Everything is really open systems, receiving energy from "radient energy" and then transferring it this way and that. I have come to understand that even electricity is not doing what we always thought it was. It seems to be various kinds of fields at work entirely, not flow like water flows in a pipe. Any device that can unbalance that radient energy and collect power from it without back force limiting the efficiency to less than equal, will manifest power coming from seemingly nowhere. Like if you couldn't see or feel the sunshine you'd think a solar panel was an over unity device and therefore could not be working. Or if you could not feel the wind blow you'd have a hard time figuring out why a wind mill turns. Radient energy is a force we can't feel or see or measure with normal instruments because it's perfectly balanced, and yet it occupies all of space and has massive power potential just by unbalancing it a little. And I think an explosion just may be a manifestation of it's imbalance and we didn't yet realize it. So it may be that the energy released in the explosive impact may be a good bit more than that which it takes to spit water into it's two gasses.
How is the best way to get something to work? Tell an inventor it can't be done. What Mr T was headed toward real fast in his inventions would have totally eliminated the use of fuel for energy, but the business men who had started making money on oil saw what he was doing and shut him down, they were not willing to let go of their new found source of wealth just so the mass public could have endless energy for no more than the cost of cheap little electrical boxes. And so it has gone ever since. So just saying something won't work because some law of physics says so means nothing. Since the law only applies in certain situations and not others. You won't get what I'm talking about in any school of technical education, the powers that be do not want the general populace gaining an understanding of how energy really works, it would reveal their hypocrisy and the extreme greed for money and power and control behind the scenes. Then the mass public might rise up in protest and ruin their system of wealth and control. I'm aware of several inventors who have been assassinated over the issue. I was in communication with one who was turned into a "criminal" and assassination attempted. Last I heard from him he was in Holland. He went a little too far trying to commercialize one of his inventions that was successful making cars get 6 times higher mpg. Any inventor who discovers this stuff and runs with it, soon discovers he has to shut up and do things in utmost secrecy, or he'll be shut up permanently.
John Evans
Posts: 2366
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Phoenix ,AZ

Re: unique water pump

Post by John Evans »

Build it and report back when it is in operation !
PS I have plans for a 200 MPG carburetor if we still used carbs !!
www.chaski.com
Magicniner
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 4:40 am

Re: unique water pump

Post by Magicniner »

Nicola Tesla was working on wireless transmission of generated energy, not free energy, that's an unfounded nutjob's fantasy.

Come back when you have one working, if they don't whisk you off in the White Blazer with the Optional Long Arms first :D
User avatar
Harold_V
Posts: 20231
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: unique water pump

Post by Harold_V »

Many a human has wasted an entire lifetime trying to get something for free.
There is no "free lunch", just as, thus far, there is no cold fusion.

You're going to have your hands more than full messing with creating your own induction heating system. I've spent an inordinate amount of time simply trying to resurrect one that was of a proven and successful design, and I'm far from finished.

You're going to have to decide which course you wish to follow. If you have hopes of creating a functioning system and achieve good work with that system, you're going to have to abandon chasing this ghost. If, on the other hand, you enjoy ghost chasing, and have no expectations of achieving your end goal, sure, keep looking for the golden chalice. Everyone needs a hobby.

Did I mention there is no free lunch?

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
User avatar
tornitore45
Posts: 2077
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:24 am
Location: USA Texas, Austin

Re: unique water pump

Post by tornitore45 »

For some reason I can't pin down, all this reminds me of a fellow engineer that said: "300 hours spent in the lab could save us 1/2 a day in the library".
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
DavidF
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 12:28 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: unique water pump

Post by DavidF »

Im still working on my uranium refining into plutonium. A couple of kilos In my low pressure sodium reactor and all will be well.
Side note, I have not had to shave since starting this project, but would like to have my eyebrows back....
Magicniner
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 4:40 am

Re: unique water pump

Post by Magicniner »

My Anti-Gravity and Inertia Neutralisation machines are nearing the end of development promising faster than light travel for almost no cost, I'll be publishing full plans at just $100 ;-)
Locked