saw for steel

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liveaboard
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saw for steel

Post by liveaboard »

I really need a saw; I've been using a portable "dry cut" carbide tooth saw from Rigid. It really can't handle heavy stock, or anything except the most mild of steels, and the blades are expensive.

Here in Portugal, they sell old junk machines for 70% of the list new price; so I will need to buy from the UK sight unseen, and have it shipped.
I have a trick for this; I can look up addresses and see how close they are to any of the various delivery firms who have weekly trucks to Portugal.
If a seller is close to a depot, shipping is reasonable.

I like the circular low speed fluid cooled machines but they're out of my price range.

SO; power hacksaws sometimes go cheap; $60- $120
Bandsaws cost more, double at least.
Budget is tight
Shipping cost will be around $150-$200

What do you like, and why?

I suppose accuracy will be mostly about the saw guides and the clamp.
John Evans
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Re: saw for steel

Post by John Evans »

4X6" horizontal ,can be used vertically for the odd small job . Have had a JET for 10-12 years and for bar stock and angles etc. best bang for the buck. Once in a great while I will use it vertically on thin sheet to cut out shapes ,barely useable for this ,.060 and thinner I use a air nibbler .Straight cuts under 1/8 I have a bench mounted 8" plate shear .
www.chaski.com
Downwindtracker2
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Re: saw for steel

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

I just got a power hacksaw working and I'm really pleased with it. I get a square cut. There isn't enough time difference between it and the 4x6 to worry about .Here is my take on it, written for amusement
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads ... cut.72636/

But looking at most threads and vids on power hacksaws, the majority are either industrial machines or home handyman . In England you won't find too many home handyman , it's rich American thing. The English hobbyist will build his own to use hand hacksaw blades. That leaves you with well used industrial ones. Here is a vid series on the repair of one such
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 7garcxMCQ7

The English saws I've watched are bit lighter duty, there was a time when the Yanks were world leaders in machine tools. Who knows maybe you'll end up with a Lend Lease, that would rate as newer in power hacksaws.

The cheap Chinese 4x6( Rong Fu copies) Harbor Freight types don't import well into Europe. Trade Barriers.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
John Hasler
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Re: saw for steel

Post by John Hasler »

Downwindtracker2 writes:
The English hobbyist will build his own to use hand hacksaw blades.

I built my own to use cut up bandsaw blades. Real power hacksaw blades are pricey.
Downwindtracker2
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Re: saw for steel

Post by Downwindtracker2 »

Oh yeah, I paid $21 CDN for a Starrett. But Starrett bimetal 64 1/2 " for a 4x6 is about that too. I was really pleased when I was given 17 new ones. So long as it's 10t, I'm set.

Reading a owners manual for one of the industrial power hacksaws, they say it's a machine tool, look after it the same way. A used power hacksaw out of England may need some attention. as in a project. Old time wisdom says if you want a square cut use a power hacksaw, so it's likely worth the effort .Here is a short vid of one like mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7NHiBh1yBU
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers
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Harold_V
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Re: saw for steel

Post by Harold_V »

One of the reasons power hack saws provide square cuts is due to the blade geometry. They're generally thicker than band saw blades, which results in less blade deflection. If you reduce the size of the blade, both in thickness and blade width, you can expect a corresponding reduction in performance.

I've owned a 7" x 11" Wells (it's an A7 model) saw since 1967. It uses ½" blades. Does a nice job on material under 2", but borders on being useless for anything larger, especially if the material is difficult to machine (like stainless). The blade, on long cuts, deflects, which quickly alters the set of the teeth. Once that happens, the blade isn't capable of making a straight cut. Luckily, on my saw, the guides are readily adjusted, so I can make adjustments that keep the cut reasonably straight. It's an ongoing chore, though. I make mention of the adjustment only because later editions of the same saw no longer offered the adjustment feature.

If I had it to do over, I'd likely pursue a saw that used a larger blade. Anything above ½" gains thickness, which lends a lot to rigidity of the blade. The ability to run a 3/4" blade would offer a serious amount of improvement.

My advice is to size the saw according to the work one intends to do. My small Wells saw served me quite nicely when I used it in business, as I specialized in small work. Now---not so much. I often have need to saw large pieces.

H
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BadDog
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Re: saw for steel

Post by BadDog »

If I were starting over, I would probably get a ~6x9 or so V/H bandsaw. Very cheap for the function provided. Those wet/dry "cold" saws are nice if you can justify, but I can't imagine any option beating a bandsaw for value/price.

I've got the same Wells A7 saw, and have had similar experience. But I've used mine mostly for structural (tube, strap, channel, and angle iron) cuts, for which it works great with good blades. I really wanted an Ellis vertical/horizontal, or better yet, a smaller Roll-In, both of which use larger blades. But over a period of years I never found one that I was willing to pay for. So the Wells and the ubiquitous HF 4x6 continued doing all I required. Having both gave me a lot more function by not having to swap blades for different material as often, though they didn't take the same blade sizes, thus not helping reduce my blade inventory.

Then I lucked up on my large "Die Master" vertical 20" Roll-In variable speed (Reeves) that has an auto-feed tilting table and uses blades from 1/4" to 1" for substantially less cost than I've ever seen the smaller saws go for. The guy didn't like it because it was breaking the bank going through blades cutting 4140 tube (drag bikes), he thought it was junk. The blade that was on it was supposed to be near new, but had teeth that were missing, or rounded, looked like it got way too hot. He had already sold his RPC, so no way to run it. But I looked it over a bit and saw nothing wrong, but I was pretty certain there was a problem that could be fixed, and didn't hesitate to buy it. And it was only about 2 miles away! When I got it home, And watching it run, man it looked fast. Moments later, before event quantifying the excess speed, I pulled the inspection plate off on the motor and took a closer look. There in the shadows was another considerably smaller pulley behind the drive pulley on the motor. That turned out to be the pulley that it came with and produced speeds I clocked to match the variable speed sfpm meter. Just swapping them, and life is good. No idea when that pulley was changed, but it roughly doubled the speeds shown on the dial. I didn't see any wood residue, so the only thing I can think of is that someone was cutting a lot of solid aluminum on it sometime back in it's life and they wanted higher speeds, even though stock it goes to speeds just fine for my needs with aluminum solid (particularly with a coarse blade). It's turned out to be a wonderful machine.

I know you're local situation is very different, but all that is by way of suggesting just getting something reasonable that works and keep an eye out for something better. That's worked well for me time and again. And I would forget the fancy stuff like the cold saws, bandsaws are my choice, and they can do wood, plastic, etc as well.
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liveaboard
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Re: saw for steel

Post by liveaboard »

thanks, guys;
I'm looking at old industrial ones, heavy old iron. 6" seems pretty common, and that would probably cut anything I'll be working with.
I didn't realize the blades were so expensive; on a per cut basis, are we talking a higher cost than bandsaw blades?

Some of these machines are looking pretty bad, some look wonderful, but it's a crap shoot as all get are the lpictures.
Usually, I get all worked up about a particular machine and then the auction price goes too high; but some I missed went cheap.
Yes, I'll likely end up with a project as opposed to a machine ready to work with.
Interesting tip about the adjustable guides.

I need to get this done before "Brexit" cuts me off from the UK.

Due to the high transport costs, I'll probably only ever buy one saw of this nature.
John Hasler
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Re: saw for steel

Post by John Hasler »

liveaboard writes:
I didn't realize the blades were so expensive; on a per cut basis, are we talking a higher cost than bandsaw blades?


Probably much higher. A bandsaw blade is on the order of 2 m long and you use all of it equally. A power hacksaw blade is typically less than a quarter of that and will wear out in the center.

On the other hand, power hacksaw blades are usually much thicker than bandsaw blades and need no compromises for flexibility.

It's even possible that some power hacksaw blades might be resharpenable.
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BadDog
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Re: saw for steel

Post by BadDog »

I thought he was talking about dry/cold rotary saws, but now I see he included power recip saws. I've no experience with those.

As far as I've seen, the dry/cold saws here demand a large premium, and the blades are expensive as well. If you are a business just cutting stock all day long, I think I recall seeing that the cost per cut was really good, particularly for pipe/tube production work. I know the local off-road buggy/race shops use them a lot. Not sure how good for heavier solids, unless with an automatic feed. But for modest home shop quantities of straight cuts, and the need for a variety of different cuts (tube, solid), plus profile cuts of all sorts, the bandsaw just can't be beat in my book. And even the big vertical bandsaws generally sell for at or below the cost of a "well used" cold saw at auction (here at least). A friend of mine repairs/builds/rebuilds equipment for the local commercial mining operations. He bought a really large (from memory, the blade is at least an 1", but I think larger) auto feed (up/down, powered hydraulic) complete with in/out feed roller tables about 20' long (each side). It's a beast. He paid right at $1000 for it, and I've seen well used dry/cold saws selling for near that.

Even at double the price of a power hacksaw, I'm pretty sure I would be looking for a bandsaw...
Russ
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liveaboard
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Re: saw for steel

Post by liveaboard »

I mentioned I have an old but still working circular blade saw; but mine is a dry carbide tooth portable. It only weighs 20 or 30 lbs, the clamp is terrible.
The amount of work it's done for me over 30 years is amazing, but it's made for light material, tube and such. I cut hundreds of 60x60mm steel angle beams doing steel construction.
I learned to be careful with it, because if the stock moves during the cut the blade loses teeth and is ruined. With care, a blade can be resharpened 3 or 4 times.
These days, although I'm doing just a fraction of the work I used to do, I often need to cut solid stock, 2" or more. I've been using the light carbide saw while spraying coolant at the cut from a hand held bottle. It's not good practice...
It will die soon if I don't get a suitable machine to do the heavy cuts.

A pal of mine where I used to live had a fluid cooled heavy type cold saw; those blades [not sure of the alloy] could be resharpened many times, until the diameter got too small to do the work. those weigh 500 lbs [ish] and cost $1000 used if one comes around. And they're limited to 4".

I like the story of the over geared bandsaw; good score!

I'll give some extra value to bandsaws as I hunt further.
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