Shop realities

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Shop realities

Post by SteveHGraham » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:07 am

Great idea. It's amazing that the people who built the workshop didn't think like that.

The shop is already connected to the burglar alarm, so I have concerns about accidentally tearing out the old conduit. I won't need the power wires any more, but I don't want to pay for new alarm wires.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

Mr Ron
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Re: Shop realities

Post by Mr Ron » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:18 am

SteveHGraham wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:44 am
Man, this is depressing to read.

I moved to a place where I have 1500 square feet, more or less. Right now, it's not easy to walk around in the main workshop. I have to keep two tractors in there, plus I have been really lazy about organizing the space.

Yesterday I finally got an electrician to give me an estimate for adding 100 amps of 220 service to the workshop. He hasn't gotten back to me yet. I am dreading the news. They have to run 120 feet of new wire from the house to the shop, underground. The original conduit (with wiring suitable for 50 amps) is large enough for the new wires, but we can't find the place where it enters the house. Why anyone would build a beautiful shed and limit it to 50 amps is a mystery.

They told me digging a new trench would be expensive. I am hoping to do it myself with a tractor and subsoiler, but I think the subsoiler will only get me down to 18", which is 6" above code. That means I have to risk going without permits or inspections or get out there and dig.
My shop is only 1200 sf. I have a separate room of 100 sf that is for metalworking. That area stays pretty uncluttered, but the remainder of the 1200 sf is cluttered with woodworking tools, wood and junk. When I built the shop 16 years ago, I had a 200 amp service put in. That is something I will never regret. I never run out of power even when I have a 3hp saw, DC running and my son is welding all at the same time. The line is buried. I don't recall the cost, but it was quite reasonable. The most expensive part was the 200 amp panel and breakers.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi

John Hasler
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Re: Shop realities

Post by John Hasler » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:59 am

SteveHGraham writes:

The original conduit (with wiring suitable for 50 amps) is large enough for the new wires,
but we can't find the place where it enters the house.

That's very odd. It has to connect to the service somehow. Have you tried one of these?

http://www.amprobe.com/amprobe/usen/pro ... re-tracers

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Shop realities

Post by SteveHGraham » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:38 pm

The box is in a garage. There are several conduits going up from the box into an eave area, and up there, they disappear from view. There is a conduit coming up where the wires enter the workshop. There is no conduit coming up out of the ground where the wires from the workshop enter the house.

It may conceivably be possible to locate the wires in the attic or wherever they are by moving a great deal of fiberglass, but that would only tell me where the wires go back down toward the ground. I would still have to find some kind of tube by the base of the house where the wires from the shop go in.

Once all that is done, I still have to decide whether it's a good idea to pay someone to replace what must be an extremely long run of wire, going through the ground, up into the attic, along the wall, and down into the box.

That tool looks neat, but did you check the price? It's $1250.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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liveaboard
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Re: Shop realities

Post by liveaboard » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:37 pm

Did you see my tractor FEL trench bucket?
It will go a bit over 3' deep.
I ran underground cables all over my property; sewer, water, + data lines too.
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thrench bucket full.jpg

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DianneB
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Re: Shop realities

Post by DianneB » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:26 pm

My shop is the back half of a 48 x 28 building and there is plenty of room to work, even enough to pull a mid-sized car into the shop.. When I bought the place, I built 4 x 16 x 6 foot cupboards before I even unpacked the house!

My Dad was a Master Mechanic and I was "conscript labour" in my youth so the rules were:

A place for everything and everything goes back in its place as soon as you are done with it or at the end of the day - whichever comes first.

Put everything back CLEAN!

Good rules! I (almost) always know where to find anything.

Russ Hanscom
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Re: Shop realities

Post by Russ Hanscom » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:48 pm

24" depth for a conduit applies in open dirt. If you go 18" deep and pour some concrete, with red color, on top, that also meets most codes. Another option.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Shop realities

Post by SteveHGraham » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:21 pm

DianneB wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:26 pm
I (almost) always know where to find anything.
Of course, most of us hate you now.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

John Hasler
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Re: Shop realities

Post by John Hasler » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:28 pm

SteveHGraham writes:
That tool looks neat, but did you check the price? It's $1250.

That's the fancy professional kind your electrician should have. Amazon has cheap consumer versions.

Pulling wire through 120' of straight conduit is routine. That's how they installed the wire that's in there now.
Last edited by John Hasler on Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

John Hasler
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Re: Shop realities

Post by John Hasler » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:31 pm

DianneB writes:
I (almost) always know where to find anything.

So do I. Makes it really frustrating when it isn't there.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Shop realities

Post by SteveHGraham » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:46 pm

John Hasler wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:28 pm
SteveHGraham writes:
That tool looks neat, but did you check the price? It's $1250.

That's the fancy professional kind your electrician should have. Amazon has cheap consumer versions.

Pulling wire through 120' of straight conduit is routine. That's how they installed the wire that's in there now.

It's 120' NOT INCLUDING the runs in the house, and there would be plenty of turns.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

TRX
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Re: Shop realities

Post by TRX » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:01 pm

Run some PVC or Pex out for water, for an outside faucet and a sink to wash up in. And if you run a 3/4 or larger return line beside it, you can install one of those "upflush" toilets that have a macerator and pump the effluent through a garden hose. Run that to the sewer side of any convenient trap.

The nice thing about the upflush toilets is that most code don't consider them to be "permanent installations", and therefore no permit or inspection if necessary.

My shop is only 60 feet from the house, but sometimes it's a looong 60 feet... particularly if there are giant mosquitoes, ice, or pouring rain.

When a friend dug a trench for his power line he went ahead and dropped in a pipe for compressed air. He swears there are lots of uses for compressed air in the house, but he never can say what any of them are...

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