Ceiling tile for my shop

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Glenn Brooks
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Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Anybody have experience with drop in ceiling tile systems for your shop?

The good wife suggested I install hanging ceiling tile system in my shop to help keep the heat in during the winter.

The shop has 12’ ceilings and is about 30’ x 20’ . The structure was originally built as a two bay shop for RV storage, so big and breezy before I started insulating the walls and sheet rocking. Now just finishing the last of the Sheetrock, but so far the ceiling is just open rafters and a plywood - asphalt shingle roof. My cheapO electric heater barely heats itself in winter. So the food wife came up with the ceiling tile idea.

Any suggestions as to brand, how to possibly insulate, etc?? Is this even a feasible idea???

Thanks much,
Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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neanderman
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Re: Ceiling til for my shop

Post by neanderman »

Is insulating between the rafters not an option? That would be my first offense, followed by a suspended ceiling.

I can't imagine any suspended ceiling matching the R-value of insulating between the rafters. It can add to it, but it's not a substitute.
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Harold_V
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by Harold_V »

Yep! What neanderman said. You'd be far better served to provide substantial insulation, as well as to close air leaks.
My shop also has 12' ceiling height. My only complaint is that it is much warmer up there than down low. I should have installed a ceiling fan to circulate the air. I like the 12' ceiling.

H
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curtis cutter
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by curtis cutter »

If you were to be putting ceiling joists across I assume they would be about 20.5' to est on outside walls. You can span a fair distance using 2x6's on 12-16" centers with 1/2" sheetrock as you will not have any "Live load and minimal "dead load" with 1/2" sheetrock and insulation batts.

https://awc.org/codes-standards/calcula ... e/spancalc

I suggest going this way giving yourself good lighting options, perhaps air lines ceiling mounted and R38 Battts. You can caulk all of your ceiling penetrations using sheetrock which would be hard to do with a suspended ceiling.
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earlgo
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by earlgo »

Harold_V wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:33 am My shop also has 12' ceiling height. My only complaint is that it is much warmer up there than down low. I should have installed a ceiling fan to circulate the air. I like the 12' ceiling. H
When we had our house foam insulated a few years ago, I had them insulate the garage outside walls, too. They were already sheet rocked. My son and I installed a cheap ceiling fan. There is no insulation in the ceiling, but I did seal the ceiling hatches. Then in the winter, I fire up the kerosene heater, locate it under the fan, and the combination keeps the garage comfortable unless the outside temp is in the teens. I also bought a CO detector so that it would remind me to open the outside door if required. So far it has not gone off.
Which reminds me, it is time to get out the heater again.
--earlgo
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Mr Ron
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by Mr Ron »

earlgo wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:49 am
Harold_V wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:33 am My shop also has 12' ceiling height. My only complaint is that it is much warmer up there than down low. I should have installed a ceiling fan to circulate the air. I like the 12' ceiling. H
When we had our house foam insulated a few years ago, I had them insulate the garage outside walls, too. They were already sheet rocked. My son and I installed a cheap ceiling fan. There is no insulation in the ceiling, but I did seal the ceiling hatches. Then in the winter, I fire up the kerosene heater, locate it under the fan, and the combination keeps the garage comfortable unless the outside temp is in the teens. I also bought a CO detector so that it would remind me to open the outside door if required. So far it has not gone off.
Which reminds me, it is time to get out the heater again.
--earlgo
Doesn't the kerosene heater increase the moisture in the air?
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NP317
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by NP317 »

My shop is 26' x 52', fully insulated with peaked ceilings, 1350 sq. feet concrete floor area.. Heat is a wood-burning stove.
Instead of a ceiling fan to stir up the heat that gatherers at the top, I installed an 8" diameter stove pipe, 12 feet long.
The top is secured ~12" below the peak of the ceiling in the building center, and angles down into the machine shop area, above head-banging height.
I installed an in-line electric fan, with a variable speed control mounted on the wall where I can easily operate it. It sucks the heat down into the shop.
After the wood stove has begun to heat the building, I turn on that fan and watch the shop temperature rise quickly.

The wood-burning stove also has a Stirling-cycle fan moving warm air toward the Shop.
This meets my needs without a dropped ceiling.
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Steggy
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by Steggy »

Glenn Brooks wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:35 am Anybody have experience with drop in ceiling tile systems for your shop?

The good wife suggested I install hanging ceiling tile system in my shop to help keep the heat in during the winter.

The shop has 12’ ceilings and is about 30’ x 20’ . The structure was originally built as a two bay shop for RV storage, so big and breezy before I started insulating the walls and sheet rocking. Now just finishing the last of the Sheetrock, but so far the ceiling is just open rafters and a plywood - asphalt shingle roof. My cheapO electric heater barely heats itself in winter. So the food wife came up with the ceiling tile idea.

Any suggestions as to brand, how to possibly insulate, etc?? Is this even a feasible idea???

Thanks much,
Glenn
I'd insulate the rafters and exposed roof decking, and hang some ceiling fans to recover stratified heat and bring it back to floor level. I did this in a garage I rented years ago and was rewarded with a low gas consumption rate during the heating season. As a bonus, running the fans during the hot months made working in there more pleasant.

You did insulate the walls, right?
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earlgo
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by earlgo »

Mr Ron wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:07 am Doesn't the kerosene heater increase the moisture in the air?
I'm sure it does, but being able to be there without gloves and a heavy jacket beats a little tool sweat. It rarely gets above 50° on the cold days, so there is that. What causes the most sweat is a long cold spell followed by chinook winds. Then I need a mop to clean off the tool sweat. Oh well, SWMBO would not like the lathe in the laundry room, I imagine. :roll:
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Glenn Brooks
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Hello All, thanks much for your replies. I like the idea of a ceiling fan.

I didn’t explain it very well. My central problem is I have no ceiling - no Sheetrock, just exposed ceiling joists and the peaked roof above. I’ll take a pic and post latter today. So haven’t been able to come up with any way to hold insulation between the rafters. And rocking the ceiling is an effort I don’t think I can undertake anymore.

Over the years I have insulated and sheetrocked all the walls - just finishing the last wall segment now. This made a notable difference, but still not enuf to work out there during the deep winter months. Maybe I need a bigger heater. I think I’ll go downtown and ask if a suspended ceiling will carry the weight of R32 insulation batts.

Glenn
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rudd
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by rudd »

Glenn,
I'm a building design professional. (Starts with an "A"). Most of your heat is going out through the lid.
The old standard building code allowed us to put batt insulation on suspended ceilings, usually R13 around here. I know "comply with code" is not part of the question, but hear me out please.
The new IBC code doesn't allow us to do that anymore, and with good reason. Ceiling tile gets moved to get above ceiling, it's nigh impossible to put the batts back correctly. Older buildings I've been in had maybe 2/3 of the ceiling still insulated, some less. Plus it is just not an efficient way to insulate. Too many gaps inherent in the install method - the tees, the suspension wires, etc. I have to wonder, like you, if the panels would support the kind of insulation you need.
I'd avoid the spray foam on the underside of the deck. It seems like a quick, easy solution, but it will void the warranty on your shingles. Don't trust me, call some shingle manuf's and ask about warranties on an "unvented deck". It cooks the shingles. They allowed it for a few years, then quit allowing it. I guess they learned. Plus, the plywood, and water either from a leak or condensation is trapped. In the plywood.
You don't mention the construction of your shop directly, but I'm guessing it is wood framed.
*IF* the joists are deep enough to leave some free air space above batts, *AND* you have ridge *and* soffit venting, you could use batts between the rafters. If not, we're back to the shingle warranty issue.
Can you provide venting in this manner? If so, it opens up other possibilities - let me know.
Drywall ceilings can be suspended. it's not a common thing, but they can be. Ceiling joists could be braced in a "truss like" fashion" from your roof would be another way. Look at metal framing, it is light. This is also what is used for suspended drywall ceilings - 1 1/2" carrier channels with wire hangers.
You don't mention what kind of condition your roof is in. The next code update, which hasn't hit here (yet) will no longer allow us to just insulate between studs or joists and call it good. It will require continuous exterior insulation. Every framing member in a wall or a roof is a thermal short. If you need a roof anyway, consider SIPS - structural insulated panels over the existing deck. Think 4x8 panels with foam insulation covered with OSB for a nail base for shingles. You can get them with sheathing one side only these were/are used for shingle roofing over a metal deck.
https://www.sips.org/about/what-are-sips
PM me if you want to talk more.
Rudd
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Thanks Rudd,

Yep, standard 2x4 wood frame construction. The roof truss are 2x4 material also. Common here, bit extremely light construction to what we were accustomed to in Alaska. No snow load here in the Seattle area. We replaced the asphalt shingles on the roof perhaps 10 years ago, with 30 to go on the expected life, so probably not in the cards for a new roof.

Very interesting comment about working around all the wiring and hanging fixtures. I wondered how that might work as I’ve got a lot of stuff suspended from the rafters already, overhead door tracks, 7 light fixtures, etc. I wouldn’t ever consider spray on insulation - saw a lot of problems in Alaska with that process, invariably leading to dry rot, water saturation etc. all good ideas, some just don’t work...

Looks like at some point I’ll have to bite the bullet and have a contractor come in and sheetrock the ceiling. Or leave it as is and spend the money wintering in Hawaii where cold days aren’t a factor. Actually I am liking the second idea more and more, now that I thinking about it.

Glenn
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