Ceiling tile for my shop

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Harold_V
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by Harold_V »

Glenn,
The way you described your ceiling area I got the impression you couldn't hang drywall. The picture says that's not true.
I purchased a drywall lift when we finished our house. We used all 5/8" firecode board, although nothing longer than 12'. The lift was more than up to the task. Code may recommend you do as well, but that may not be true. Just thinking about a worse case scenario, considering it's a work shop.
Hanging, with a lift, isn't hard to do. It holds the board while you install enough fasteners (I used NO nails---just screws). Susan and I handled each and every piece without outside help. If you're inclined, you can do it. My lift is for sale for $125, or you can borrow it. The choice is yours, if you decide to rock the ceiling.

It goes without saying that you'd have to make a few changes in how things are suspended, but I expect that's the case, no matter which method you choose to use.

H
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curtis cutter
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by curtis cutter »

Are your trusses on 24" centers?
Gregg
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earlgo
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by earlgo »

Rudd, you bring up an interesting question from the point you noted about foam insulation. In NE Ohio there is a company that foam insulates existing houses that have bat insulation or none. As mentioned before, our house was done by this company. Is there an issue with dry rot, etc. in this situation? The company has been doing this for years and I have not heard of any problems with their technique. I am sure the news people would send their 'investigative reporter' if there were an issue. Have you, or anyone else for that matter, heard of any problems with this type of home insulation?
With the foam insulation and new windows, sometimes we see rain, but do not hear it, or the traffic, or the birds.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
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seal killer
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by seal killer »

All--

I agree with earlgo, but I am certainly not a professional like rudd . . . so, like Father Guido says, "I'm not too sure, but I'm pretty sure."

rudd, I have a steel roof, then the usual plastic sheeting (forgot what it's called), then tar paper, then 3/4" Advantec tongue and groove sheeting, then 3-4" of closed cell foam. then a couple of feet of Roxul sound barrier. Do the new standards that prohibit foam under shingles apply to foam under steel? (Not that I can do anything about it at this point.)

I plan to closed-cell foam the way-high deck of my garage and shop, which also has a steel roof. (The ceiling level is 12'. I may sheetrock the ceiling in the shop, but not the garage.)

Thanks!

--Bill
You are what you write.
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rudd
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by rudd »

Bill, The code issues with foam are related to it being a flammable plastic material. There are fire barrier coatings that can be applied over it. I'm using in an elementary school repair right now. That section of the code gives me a headache,very convoluted. They even include a flow chart for decision making.
The concern with foam under shingles is an issue with shingle manufacturer warranties, not a code issue.
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rudd
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by rudd »

Earlgo:
I hate to say this but "it depends". It is a vapor barrier issue. In your area, you need a vapor barrier on the "warm in winter" side of the insulation. There is open cell foam and closed cell foam. Closed cell functions as a vapor barrier. Open cell does not. If they are squirting it down in stud spaces, no telling - is there a vapor barrier on the inside face of the wall? Would this mean you now have two vapor barriers? (2 is NOT better than one,it is much worse, a moisture trap.)
If they are doing the underside of a ground floor,always should be closed cell. Run the AC inside,humid outside, = condensation on the underside of the floor. Roof - open cell preferred so you can figure out where the leaks are, plus, you already have a vapor barrier. Not in the right place, but you have one. I recommend NOT using foam under a wood roof deck for this reason. The underside of the wood needs to breathe.
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rudd
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by rudd »

Glenn, not sure of your truss spacing, if 4' OC, 1 1/2" metal hat channels at 16" OC run perpendicular to and attached to the bottom chords of the trusses would most likely do it.
earlgo
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by earlgo »

Thanks for your answer Rudd. The company removes a siding part, wood or aluminum or vinyl, drills a hole in the sub wall and inserts the foam hose in and lets it go until the back pressure tells them the cavity is full. Plug the hole and repeat between the next stud pair. Theoretically it is on the outside of the existing bat/vapor barrier but that is only a guess. If there is no insulation, then there probably is no vapor barrier. I checked the temp of the inside walls with my IR thermometer and they are at 69/70°. Outside it is 32° and the thermostat is at 72° so I am thinking the insulation works. We had them also blow in 18" of fiber insulation in the attic. The ceiling is at 70°. The new windows are at 69°.
My son's 1895 4 square Victorian house had no insulation and apparently the inside walls are not connected to the outside walls. The same company did his house and who knows what went on there, but his house is warmer.

Thanks again for your information and my apologies, Glenn for the tangential turn your topic took.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
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rudd
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by rudd »

Earlgo,
*IF* they use a closed cell foam - which is a bit costlier than open cell - and *if* it fills the cavity completely, and *if* it doesn't shrink over time, it might work. Maybe the vapor barrier on the batts that should have been fixed to the studs is still there if there was insulation.

Given outside temp, R values of the various materials, inside temp, and humidity, you can determine where condensation wants to form in an assembly - find the dew point. The vapor barrier needs to be inside that.
Internal finishes (painted gyp, plaster) can be made to a vapor barrier, but it takes some diligence in sealing all the penetrations like receptacles and switches. Might be something worth looking into.
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seal killer
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by seal killer »

rudd—

I have a moisture barrier wrapped around the below grade walls of the ICF house. And a radiant barrier beneath it. The radiant barrier is also around the above grade walls.

—Bill
You are what you write.
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ALCOSTEAM
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by ALCOSTEAM »

You need to look into thick aluminum faced tongue and groove insulation. About 20 years ago a friend built a 36x54 pole barn and as it came up towards fall the first year he started looking at insulating and getting it ready for winter. We have an insulation dealer that handles alot of "seconds" about 25 miles away and he went down and talked to the guy. He recommended 2 1/2 inch thick insulation panels, the ones my friend bought were 4ft wide and 14 or 16 ft long tongue and groove on the long sides. He did put extra boards between the rafters at the insulation board joints so they had plenty of support and would never sag. After doing the ceiling he decided to just do all the walls the same way. All the joints are sealed with white caulking and for the most part you can't see the joints on the ceiling. I think he had about 2K in all the material to do the building but you just can't believe how nice it is to go into his shop on a 90+ degree humid day and it be a cool 70ish degrees with no air conditioning.

I am looking at buying a piece of property that has an older metal building on it with a hodge podge of insulation and paneling in it. If I get it bought I will strip the inside down to the bones and it will get the faced insulation board in it. The current owner only keeps the office/restroom area with enough heat on to not freeze, but if I move my machinery there it will have to be much more climate controlled.
Inspector
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Re: Ceiling tile for my shop

Post by Inspector »

When my house was being built I had to finish the inside of the wood shop so I asked the dry wallers what they wanted to hang the OSB on the ceiling. They came in on a Saturday and the three of them were done in less than three hours. It is a 24' x 28' area and cost $250 cash. If you have the lights and stuff off when they come it will be loads faster, therefore cheaper, to hang the drywall. In your shoes I would pay to get it done by a crew.

Pete
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