key type chuck with R8 mount

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curtis cutter
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key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by curtis cutter »

Yesterday I was using my keyless chuck with an R8 adapter. It spun within the chuck and adapter scoring both the adapter and chuck. I have been doing some searching this morning but find limited results or questionable as to whether they are a "one piece" unit or use the adapter.

I have no idea if it was contaminated with oil or what as I was not the one who switched the chuck from the Morse to the R8.

I would prefer to not use an adapter in the future. Does anyone know of a source who makes a key type approximately 1/8 to 5/8 chuck that has a fixed R8 mount?
Gregg
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Conrad_R_Hoffman
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by Conrad_R_Hoffman »

Never seen such a thing, but I've been using chucks with taper mounts for decades and have never had one spin. It's probably good to blue them up before assembly to be sure the taper is exact. I think it was just a bad assembly job.
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curtis cutter
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by curtis cutter »

Conrad_R_Hoffman wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:55 am Never seen such a thing, but I've been using chucks with taper mounts for decades and have never had one spin. It's probably good to blue them up before assembly to be sure the taper is exact. I think it was just a bad assembly job.
I suspect it was contaminates on the surfaces as well but I do not care for swapping them at all so I just thought problem solved for the mill by just getting a one piece unit.
Gregg
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Inspector
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by Inspector »

There are tons of R8 keyless chucks with integral shank everywhere.
ChipMaker4130
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by ChipMaker4130 »

There are several listed here: https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/?se ... ck+r8&lh=n

Although the retail prices shown are fairly high, if you happen to be a 'grandfathered' Enco customer these chucks are from $50 - $200+ cheaper than list. By 'grandfathered' I mean one who was an Enco customer and signed up with MSC through that avenue prior to Enco's closing.
curtis cutter
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by curtis cutter »

ChipMaker4130 wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:35 pm There are several listed here: https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/?se ... ck+r8&lh=n

Although the retail prices shown are fairly high, if you happen to be a 'grandfathered' Enco customer these chucks are from $50 - $200+ cheaper than list. By 'grandfathered' I mean one who was an Enco customer and signed up with MSC through that avenue prior to Enco's closing.
I was seeing these as a JT3 mount with the exception of the non keyed unit. Am I missing something here? I was looking for an integral R8 mount so as to avoid the adapter.
Gregg
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ChipMaker4130
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by ChipMaker4130 »

Oops. You are correct. I passed too quickly over the descriptions. Like others, in 50 years of using them I've never had a properly fitted Jacobs Taper spin. In fact, the main difficulty for me sometimes is getting them separated, even with a punch or wedge. I do have a very nice Accu-Pro (Spain) keyless with an integral R8 but I've no personal experience with what you seek. Sorry for the misleading link.
curtis cutter
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by curtis cutter »

ChipMaker4130 wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:45 pm Oops. You are correct. I passed too quickly over the descriptions. Like others, in 50 years of using them I've never had a properly fitted Jacobs Taper spin. In fact, the main difficulty for me sometimes is getting them separated, even with a punch or wedge. I do have a very nice Accu-Pro (Spain) keyless with an integral R8 but I've no personal experience with what you seek. Sorry for the misleading link.
My guess is that when it was removed from the MT3 in the lathe it was not put together cleanly in the R8. I just thought I could avoid the issue by having separate chucks altogether and figured the keyed type would be cheaper and work as well. I do appreciate your response though. :)
Gregg
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pete
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by pete »

Getting a good, well made and low runout keyed chuck today is a tough one even without the integral shank requirement. I have seen a few in the past in tool catalogs but not lately. Some but maybe not all keyed chucks can be drilled and tapped for a jacking bolt to help separate an arbor from the chuck. I had a bench top Craftsman drill press with a 1/2" capacity keyed chuck that had really great runout numbers and it had a machine screw that held the chucks female mounting taper onto the Jacobs taper since the spindle was ground with an integral male Jacob's taper. Very useful while applying side loads like when using drum sanders etc. It might take a full chuck disassembly to figure out if it's safe to do or not. For general information I do know this can't be done on some keyless chucks. Albrecht specifically mention it can't be done.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by SteveHGraham »

If memory serves, I once annoyed Harold by pointing out that my old Rockwell drill press has a Jacobs chuck which is attached to the spindle by a threaded sleeve as well as a taper. You can apply side loads to it all day, and it can't come loose.

Maybe it was someone else I annoyed. Anyway, it's true. And of course, they no longer make that chuck, so once it conks out, I'm in trouble.

I have a Taiwan Golden Goose ball-bearing chuck for my lathe. It came with a hole inside it, to permit a punch to bop the shank out. I suppose a clever person could mount such a chuck on a shank, remove the jaws, get in there with a TIG torch, and make some effort to weld the shank's end to the chuck through the hole. It might not be the greatest way to weld two parts together, but it ought to produce a bond strong enough to stand up to drilling. If your drill bit applies so much torque it can break the weld, you're probably doing something wrong.

I don't know if welding would create runout. Seems like it would be hard to get runout from welding something so close to the axis of rotation.

Ay, Chihuahua. Someone is selling a new Golden Goose on Ebay for $75. Mine is great. People say they're better than Jacobs. Jacobs is now Chinese, and Golden Goose is Taiwanese.

It would only cost around a hundred bucks to buy the chuck and a shank and try it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Golden-Goo ... :rk:5:pf:0
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Harold_V
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by Harold_V »

SteveHGraham wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:14 pm If memory serves, I once annoyed Harold by pointing out that my old Rockwell drill press has a Jacobs chuck which is attached to the spindle by a threaded sleeve as well as a taper. You can apply side loads to it all day, and it can't come loose.
You're a pest! :lol:
I don't know if welding would create runout. Seems like it would be hard to get runout from welding something so close to the axis of rotation.
Surely you've heard of shrinking? Internal stress? Hardening?
Each of those are a concern when you weld on precision pieces.

I'm not suggesting that welding couldn't be successful, but the HAZ on heat treatable materials is subject to failure, and is sure to distort to some degree. It's a matter of how much, and if the end result is functional for one's needs.

Personally, I wouldn't weld a chuck on the adapter. If the fit is proper, and the assembly is clean, the provided taper should be more than adequate, assuming the chuck is used in keeping with good shop practice. Remember, there's literally millions of those chucks in use in industry, where they perform properly day in and day out.

H
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SteveHGraham
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Re: key type chuck with R8 mount

Post by SteveHGraham »

Harold_V wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:57 am You're a pest! :lol:
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