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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:07 am
by SteveM
I talked to my brother and he said that for a shop, you want to use the 21" commercial units. You would need to talk to a commercial Solatube distributor for those.

Steve

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:09 am
by seal killer
SteveM--

I'm glad you mentioned the grinding issue. My shop is on the house's ERV system. I need to make sure that there are no intake ducts in the shop which draw fresh air into the ERV system. (It's an easy relocation fix if there are.)

Thanks!

I'll also think about some kind of dust and grit division between the grinders and sanders and the rest of the shop.

--Bill

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:35 pm
by Glenn Brooks
+1 for setting up a separate dirty area.

I’ve finally re located all my grinding, welding, drilling, and cutting tools in one dirty corner of my shop -, right next to a vertical roll up shop door- and as far away from Milling and lathe work that I can get. An alternative to relocating the pedestal grinder is to fab up some cheap duct work from the grinder head down to a small, quite vacuum.Then wire the vacuum and grinder into one switch- so they both turn on when you need to grind something. The vacuum keeps 90% of the grit and light particulates out of the air - or pipe the ducting directly outside thru a hole in the wall. You could even put a cloth filter - like a big sock- on the exterior wall duct to capture contaminants.

When I am welding something - I use a moderate size stick welder- I blow the smoke and products of combustion out the open shop door with a small, high capacity industrial blower. This keeps the air breathable and very little welding particulate settles on anything,

My shop is basically square, that I have partitioned in half with shop tools (mill and lathe) on one side, and open floor space on the other. Anything that goes into the open space basically gets stored on a frame or cabinet with casters. So large tool box, locomotives, etc , can be pushed around, or in and out as needed.

Glenn

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:19 pm
by neanderman
Another vote for what I presume other's have recommended: engineered joists. And I agree that I'd want to be able to use the ceiling for holding some sort of lift, crane, whatever, at least above certain machines. Moving things from one machine to another is easy enough with mover's dollies; but lifting them is a whole other thing.

I look forward to progress shots!

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:54 am
by TomB
neanderman wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:19 pm
Another vote for what I presume other's have recommended: engineered joists. ...
I know of two types of 'engineered joists'. Those that are 3 or 4 manufactured 2 x 8 (or 6 or 10) and those that are flat trusses fab'd out of 2 x 4s with pin plates at the joints. I used the flat truss type in my last house for second floor,floor joists but I suspect the thought about point loads is applicable to either. And yes I did put point loads on them when I needed to and never saw a failure. But I always wondered if a point load to support a chain hoist violated the distributed floor load the engineers likely designed for. Mine were put in to facilitate a 26' span without center support but there were 2 or 3 that actually had a partition wall under the truss about 8' from the end. It was in that 8' section I used my hoists so it may not have been a representative test. I'm sure somebody must have tested pin plates for shear failure but I have no idea where to find that type data.

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:16 pm
by NP317
My 26' x 52' garage shop has unsupported center engineered 26' spans, of double 2" x 8" beams, with bottom 2" x 8" horizontal beams on the bottom. Roof snow load is calculated to be 70 lbs/ft. Recent winters have verified this engineering value!
I have a steel I-beam supporting a 1000 lb electric lift, spanning two joists +, parallel and near to the long walls. If I am ever worried about joist load, I made removable vertical 4" x 4" vertical supports for both ends of the lift beam. This transfers load from the joists to the heavy-duty concrete floor below. I did not want to take any chances.
The vertical supports are stored against the wall when not in use, opening up floor space.
I have not yet needed the additional vertical supports. I can easily lift and move my 600+ lb locomotives without the additional supports. Very convenient.
~RN
ShopLift3small.jpg

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:43 am
by RSG
Looking real good so far Bill! While I can't add much to your decision making I will agree with Pete regarding structural surfaces for the walls. I clad my small shop with 1/2" ply which gives freedom of hanging stuff.

Watching the first video regarding the road in, something else. I'd have turned back at the first turn-around....LOL. Not because of the road conditions for driving but rather bringing in all the materials and heavy equipment to build the house! You are one venturous man! ;)

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:41 pm
by neanderman
TomB wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:54 am
neanderman wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:19 pm
Another vote for what I presume other's have recommended: engineered joists. ...
I know of two types of 'engineered joists'. Those that are 3 or 4 manufactured 2 x 8 (or 6 or 10) and those that are flat trusses fab'd out of 2 x 4s with pin plates at the joints.
Good points. My familiarity is with the USB panels, with a header and footer (?) plate. My thinking was, if you fashioned some U plates, that bear on the top of the joist, meeting at a common 'hooking' point at the bottom of the joist, you would essentially be using the compression strength of the joist. If you planned, I suppose you could double up on the joists at the points where you might want to have lifting points.

Also, in a single story unit, the weight on the top of the joist would not be nearly what it would be if it were supporting the oad of an upper story, so adding a hoisting load to the top would be less of a concern.

Just my $0.02. I'm NOT a structural engineer. Just the son of a son of a son of a carpenter. :)

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:03 am
by seal killer
RSG--

You nailed the road intimidation issue! I had to convince EVERY vendor of construction materials that they could make it back to the build site . . . and then hold my breath that they wouldn't get hung up somewhere. The vendor of the styrofoam forms for the concrete came down the "road" for only a mile, then dumped the load. We had to haul them from there. Good thing it was styrofoam! But it was a full load on an 18 wheeler.

I NEVER convinced appliance and flooring (wood and tile) vendors they could make it, nor the haulers of the 900lb vault door. I either hauled everything myself (which was everything) from KC to here (240 miles) or had it delivered to Rockbridge, MO and then I hauled it from there. (Google Rockbridge, MO; its a neat place.)

--Bill

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:13 am
by liveaboard
What wimps.
I've pulled out a couple of stuck local material delivery trucks with my tractor.
In the village I live, we have a culture of pulling each other out for free. I've been on both ends of that.

But the good one was when a loaded 12 ton decided to take a shortcut across a dry field that cars had been using for a while.
It was mainly to avoid a tight corner at a bridge behind my place, that makes long vehicles do 9 point turns.
Anyway, the heavy truck fell through the surface vegetation layer into the soft sand below, right in the center of the field.
The company was located just a few miles away, and thay send a big tracked digger on a low loader to get him out.
It was night by then and they were working with lights.
They dragged it with the hydraulic digging arm; the tracks weren't strong enough.It took hours.
No one was using that shortcut anymore; what a mess!

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:54 am
by spro
I have absorbed your post and those experiences are of operations to be remembered.

Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:24 am
by spro
There is "I " beams which were heavy to assemble across a 14' span. Trolley and hoist worked well with that but needed adjustment. "C" channel of 5" X 2 1/2" is different in that it tapers to the web. I can't say it all tapers, may be flat these days. What I'm trying to say is that "C" channels are much lighter than an "I" beam of fixed dimension. They can serve as rafter ties or trolley when doubled up to the width needed .