Shop Build (help appreciated!)

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seal killer
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by seal killer » Thu May 02, 2019 12:14 am

spro and Russ—

Re: Knees

The only knee problem I’ve needed professional work on is an ACL replacement. They striped a piece of ligament of the right length from somewhere close and put a titanium screw in the upper end. The lower end grew and attached itself to where it was supposed to.

That was a dozen years ago. Now it is better than my good knee.

—Bill
You are what you write.

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seal killer
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by seal killer » Thu May 02, 2019 12:26 am

All—

We had a LOT of rain in south-central Missouri. The river rose a lot. (It was still hundreds of feet below the house.) A tree fell into the raging flood. A power line spanning the river got snagged by the tree rushing downstream.

It was MY power line. No power means no water. No water means no bath facilities, no drinking water, no heat and no cooling. The co-op said the water is too high to get to the problem. They have to wait for the water level to drop. It might be WEEKS. (The last big flood we had in 2016 caused pretty much the same problem. It took three weeks to fix.)

I buttoned up the house and came back to Kansas; just got home.

Tomorrow, I will start the process of buying a whole-house, propane fired generator. 20kva, I imagine.

—Bill
You are what you write.

spro
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by spro » Thu May 02, 2019 12:42 am

Hey, Seal Bill. It is remarkable how the body rebuilds the bones. Good nutrition etc.
Update: Sorry about the power loss and all that trouble.

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BadDog
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by BadDog » Thu May 02, 2019 1:00 am

Maybe you can get them to raise the lines next time? Good luck!
Russ
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liveaboard
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by liveaboard » Thu May 02, 2019 2:36 am

That must be so aggravating!

I think a whole house generator is a prerequisite in a place like yours.
My 2 older brothers in rural North East US both have them now; winter power outages used to be rare, but now they're almost normal.
Bad things happen to houses without power during blizzards.

Most people fit generators that are far too large.
All your lights and refrigeration is likely around 5 kva. if you have electric oven you have to use during blackouts, 10kva will do you with a lot of spare capacity.
An oversized generator will use more fuel, reducing your reserve time.
I agree, propane is the way to go for a backup generator. No liquid fuel going weird in unused tanks.

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seal killer
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by seal killer » Thu May 02, 2019 11:07 am

liveaboard--

I know you are correct about over sizing. The house is 5500 sq ft. But, it's all LED lighting. The heating is done with a propane water heater using three low-power pumps to circulate the water. The cooling is done by using those same three pumps to move well water through the house (and then dump it). There is a squirrel cage blower unit in the machine room that sucks wet air out of the wet places and dumps it in the dry places and mixes outside air while exhausting "old" air. There is a well pump at the bottom of the well. Hot water is done by propane. There is a microwave, a convection oven, large deep freeze and a large refrigerator. The cook-top is propane. The oven is electric. Dishwasher and garbage disposal. Only one TV will be used (if that) during power outages.

I'm not going to power any of the five garage doors or anything in the garage, including my shop, the laundry or the fifth bath.

I used a power calculator and came up with 14.5kw, but it didn't have a good function for the lighting and assumed incandescent.

I think I have access to a professional for the sizing. I'll use him.

--Bill
You are what you write.

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liveaboard
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by liveaboard » Thu May 02, 2019 1:24 pm

If the pro is from company that sells generators, they will usually recommend double what you ever possibly need.
They never get trouble from selling generators that are too big, and they're usually on commision.
You do need extra capacity for starting refrigeration motors, but only big ones like air-conditioners make much difference.
Best would be to turn all your lights on and measure the current with a clamp, or by watching your electric meter [time 6 minutes and calculate watts].
The add your oven [usually 2 to 2.5kw], etc.
Your water pump will probably be 1hp, .75kw, but will likely need 2kw when starting, which happens any old time. Most of these generators have momentary overload capacity for starting surge loads [it will be in the sales burble]
You can open your garage doors for sure, if the oven is off. After all, you only open one at a time, right?

Those sales guys will calculate that all the doors are opening at once and the oven is on, electric water cooker, washing machine on heat cycle, and someone decides to make toast at the same time as the fridge and freezer start.

Generators; love the damn things. Don't know why.
I want to build one as an attachment to my tractor, I have a 10kw alternator.
The problem is I have no use for one.

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seal killer
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by seal killer » Thu May 02, 2019 2:33 pm

liveaboard--

Re: "I want to build one as an attachment to my tractor, I have a 10kw alternator.
The problem is I have no use for one."


No use for one? What difference does that make?

--Bill
You are what you write.

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seal killer
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by seal killer » Thu May 02, 2019 3:55 pm

All--

A little update on the shop.

https://youtu.be/16akkuI2nAw

--Bill
You are what you write.

Glenn Brooks
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu May 02, 2019 8:46 pm

Seal killer, little late to the part about a spare genset. But, with your low voltage systems, have you considered installing a solar charger/ battery system? These are becoming popular as off the grid alternatives out west, and particularly places with a lot of sun exposure. A battery system captures excess amperage for latter usage. Might be a perfect alternative to power outages. And no fuel storage costs.

Glenn
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liveaboard
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by liveaboard » Fri May 03, 2019 2:26 am

I did that; but I didn't bother with the solar panels, as it was cheaper to charge my batteries from grid power.
I had a 7kva inverter from my boat. I installed the house wiring with parallel circuits, so essential users would be on one and heavy users [toaster, oven, etc]. on the other, inactive during power outages.
But the situation here is different; we would often get outages but only for a few hours.
In rural US, power goes out when rural lines are broken. Outages are rare, but then may last for days or weeks.
My batteries stopped working after 6 years. Replacement is expensive. The power grid has become more reliable now, so I never bothered.

Batteries suck.

If you're off grid, solar and batteries may be practical. Solar panels have improved and become much cheaper, batteries only slightly.
If you have a grid connection that is 95% reliable, batteries make no sense.
A propane generator will power everything, and happily lay dormant for a decade or more until the day it's needed.

My Brother in northern Mass just put in a large grid connected solar array, and tells me it pays for itself.
But that's without batteries, so a different subject.

Inspector
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Re: Shop Build (help appreciated!)

Post by Inspector » Fri May 03, 2019 8:50 am

I rented a house on a chicken farm long time ago. Loosing power in the barns meant hungry and thirsty chickens that got no fresh air and quit laying eggs. The landlord bought a generator that was powered by his tractor. When the lights went out he or his farm hand would show up and hook the generator to the PTO of the tractor and the barns lit up. Unfortunately for me the house was on its own meter and stayed dark. Certainly something worth looking into if you are home most of the time.

Pete

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