VFD question

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liveaboard
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Re: VFD question

Post by liveaboard » Mon May 13, 2019 4:25 am

John Hasler wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:55 pm
If you use a DC motor the diesel can drive it to charge your batteries.
Yes; but regulating a battery charger is a whole story of its own. I've studied the subject and built such a regulator.
In this case, I'll need a mains charger because I often just sail back and forth between points within the city, where the diesel will be banned.
So I'd only have a second charging system if it essentially came free with the drive.
Also, the old engine has a 10kw 3-phase 380v alternator on it already.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: VFD question

Post by SteveHGraham » Mon May 13, 2019 11:26 am

Wow. So your real enemy is social engineering, not a mechanical puzzle.
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Re: VFD question

Post by liveaboard » Tue May 14, 2019 7:22 am

Many engineering projects are in response to law or rule changes. Ships, cars, airplanes are designed within legal constraints.

If I were allowed to keep on polluting the city with my old diesel, I would.

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Re: VFD question

Post by SteveHGraham » Tue May 14, 2019 10:54 am

It's always annoying when the government's aspirations get ahead of reality.

Here in the US, we are having terrible problems with washing machines because of political correctness. Nearly every new washing machine harbors mold, mildew, and bacteria because they are not like older machines. They are made to use less water. They remove stains better than old machines, but they don't get things as clean, because the filth is less diluted. When I get rained on or start to sweat, my shirts start to smell like mildew or sour milk, and there is no way to fix it.

When I use my machine, I have to use the "bulky" setting for everything, because if I don't, the clothes in the middle of the washer stay dry! Sometimes I have to run two cycles. The bulky setting leaves clothes very wet, so I often have to run the dryer twice. Take that, Al Gore. I use a lot of water and energy, because the green engineering is less green than the old engineering. They forced a mindset on us long before the technology was ready.

And I live on a farm, using well water, so there is no reason for me to conserve water to begin with.

Washing a load of clothing takes over an hour. Used to be 30 minutes, for a better result. I don't know how a mom with 5 kids could do it. She would be up all night, three times a week.

I learned that there are a couple of Speed Queen models that will get my clothes clean, so I plan to buy one soon. Most Speed Queen machines are no good, but if you look in the right places, you can still get a machine that works.

I guess it could be worse. I could be living in Amsterdam on a houseboat.
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BadDog
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Re: VFD question

Post by BadDog » Tue May 14, 2019 12:53 pm

We have a similar problem with the sour smell in "clean" cloths once you start to sweat, especially in the humid late summer heat. Every few loads my wife adds vinegar to a "wet" wash, and adds an extra spin cycle to get them dry enough for the dryer to work at normal efficiency. Most of the time her vinegar load is also my shop/work clothes, which works out well and keeps the machine from accumulating that odor producing soap resistant bacteria. Not sure where she got that, but I can sure tell the difference in my shop clothes.

Also works well if she/we gets distracted and doesn't remove the wash right away when it's finished. It will sour the whole load in a few hours. You don't notice it so much right way, but just wearing the clothes enough to warm up to body temperature and it starts to smell. Again, back in with vinegar, and as long as you can get all the affected items, problem solved. Without the vinegar, once that happens, even washing again won't remove the smell, and an affected item will sour a whole load.

My wife's sense of smell seems acutely attuned to this odor, and she can't stand it. So she buys cheap vinegar in gallons, and it sets in there with the washing chemicals.
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John Hasler
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Re: VFD question

Post by John Hasler » Tue May 14, 2019 3:12 pm

It's probably a fungus if vinegar kills it.

Adding to the problem is the enfeeblement of clothes detergent and the lowering of hot water heater setpoints (but you can fix that).

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Re: VFD question

Post by BadDog » Tue May 14, 2019 3:25 pm

Hmm, never thought about that. Apparently the dust/dirt here in the desert SW is full of fungus spores just waiting for some dampness. One particularly unpleasant variety is responsible for what is called Valley Fever. I had just assumed it was bacterial, but was not sure why the wash soap didn't deal with it more effectively.
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Re: VFD question

Post by whateg0 » Tue May 14, 2019 4:11 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:54 am
...And I live on a farm, using well water, so there is no reason for me to conserve water to begin with. ...
I'm not sure living on a boat would be entirely awful. I miss my days in the Navy.

Using well water doesn't mean you shouldn't worry about over use. Many ranchers in the midwest are fighting for access to more of the limited water available to them as aquifers dry up. The rain this year should help, I would think, but I don't know how long it takes for rain water to make it into the aquifer.

The smell isn't just a new washer issue. We used to have problems with our old water-hog of a washing machine with towels smelling bad. Vinegar is what we found to work then, too. The new washers do make the problem worse, though.

Back to the motor thing, I don't know how big a 10hp DC motor is, but the 3hp DC motor from my 10ee is pretty huge compared to any of my 5hp ac motors. The controls for that motor were pretty rudimentary - just a giant rheostat. Very inefficient, which for a machine powered off mains, is not a big deal. In a boat where power is limited, that would be a huge thing. There are DC control systems out there, but they are expensive, even in country. I can't imagine what it would cost to have to buy them from overseas. I don't know what systems exist in Europe, but surely there are some. As others have said, wait until it becomes more common and somebody will offer a kit. OTOH, maybe there's money to be made in being the first to offer one?


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SteveHGraham
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Re: VFD question

Post by SteveHGraham » Tue May 14, 2019 5:32 pm

whateg0 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:11 pm
Using well water doesn't mean you shouldn't worry about over use. Many ranchers in the midwest are fighting for access to more of the limited water available to them as aquifers dry up. The rain this year should help, I would think, but I don't know how long it takes for rain water to make it into the aquifer.
I live on a big tract with abundant rain and no one within miles growing crops. My washing machine does not have any impact on the local ecology. Besides, the new machine uses lots of water because I have to run double cycles. An older model that does the job with one cycle would take less time and energy, and it would probably not use much more water.
The smell isn't just a new washer issue. We used to have problems with our old water-hog of a washing machine with towels smelling bad. Vinegar is what we found to work then, too. The new washers do make the problem worse, though.
It may well be that a few old washers made clothes smell, but now the problem is nearly universal. New washers are much worse. I look forward to seeing a new Speed Queen sitting in my laundry room, and if I move, I will take it with me.

The new machines are just plain stupid. There is no way to defend them.
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Re: VFD question

Post by liveaboard » Tue May 14, 2019 6:49 pm

Living on the houseboat was great, as far as city living goes.
But the place was worth more in rent than I was earning while living in it; and I never liked the city.
So we moved out to 10 acres near the sea in southern Portugal.

I found a 5HP 36 volt forklift motor on ebay UK for a hundred bucks; I'm not going to buy it, the seller doesn't want to post it and I need to take measurements and observations to know how little power will safely control the boat.
But it means that such things are possible.
I just need to work out how to get momentary higher maneuvering / stopping power.
Double the voltage for a short spell? Second motor?

I've been using low water use washing machines for decades, never had problems. I like Bosch.
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whateg0
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Re: VFD question

Post by whateg0 » Tue May 14, 2019 10:43 pm

liveaboard wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:49 pm
...I've been using low water use washing machines for decades, never had problems. I like Bosch. ...
As I am sure you are aware, we Americans do not welcome change or adaptation. This is the way we do it because this is the way we have always done it. I see the argument everywhere. When I gutted my 10ee, the cries were awful! Why would you do that? If it was better to use a different motor, Monarch would have done so. Funny, nobody ever says that about things like disc brakes on cars.

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Re: VFD question

Post by SteveHGraham » Wed May 15, 2019 9:05 am

I think the reason we liked disc brakes when they arrived is that they worked. I'll bet they had already been proven on race tracks or airplanes or something, but I am too lazy to look. My space-age washing machine is different. It doesn't do what it's supposed to, because the smug, idealistic green laws were passed before practical technology existed.

It reminds me of the curly fluorescent bulbs that were a plague a while back. They were full of mercury. They took a whole minute to start working. They burned out quickly. We were forced to change too soon. Now we have LED's, and I am filling my house's sockets with them. I don't want incandescent or fluorescent lights on my property.

If someone invents a green washing machine that works, I will be an enthusiastic supporter.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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