Which grease to replace old specification?

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RCW
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Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by RCW » Tue May 28, 2019 10:55 am

The label on the back of my Gorton mill reads "Use Keystone 122 Grease," on a label just below a grease zerk.

My local auto parts store did not have an equivalents chart.

An online forum (NOT this one) had conflicting advice. One poster asserted that "any modern grease is a better lubricant than what was available in the past." (That sounded a bit more like hubris than wisdom.) A second poster warned that grease containing moly would make old copper or bronze parts deteriorate. Then another poster claimed that he had contacted a lubricants company which stated that modern moly was no longer dangerous to copper alloys. I was left without much confidence in the guys who were sharing their ________. (Insert your choice: "expertise" or "opinion" or "ignorance).

I appreciate the fact that folks on this forum are much more professional, so I am looking forward to your advice. :D

I enjoy every trip to this forum, even if I don't have a chance to post as often as I'd like!
--Bob

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GlennW
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by GlennW » Tue May 28, 2019 11:11 am

I copied this from another forum when I Googled "Keystone 122":



I contacted Keystone Lubricants re the mysterious, unavailable Keystone 122
specified for Gorton mills.

Keystone is now part of Total (the French oil and lubricants company)
KEYSTONELUBRICANTS.COM

The reply I got from Total USA reads

"The Keystone 122 grease has been discontinued for many years. Our replacement
is called Carter Open Gear Grease."


It didn't take long to find that. It also goes by another name, Total Moly 29.
Here's an official information sheet.

http://www.finalube.com/Product_Data...Product_Data/\
07_18_2007/K_Moly_29_Carter_Open_Gear_Gr.pdf

Anyway, I just got a cartridge of the stuff locally for $10.

Update:
Those links appear to be dead.
Try
http://finalube.com/Product_Data_Fil...arCompound.pdf

http://finalube.com/MSDS/Total_Fluid...rease_msds.pdf
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

John Hasler
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by John Hasler » Tue May 28, 2019 1:01 pm

Bob writes:
> One poster asserted that "any modern grease is a better lubricant than what was available in the past."

While this is probably true in some sense, it does not follow that every modern grease is a suitable replacement for every grease that was available in the past. You wouldn't pack a wheel bearing with assembly lube because the assembly lube is modern and therefor a better lubricant than the wheelbearing grease specified by the manufacturer in the 1950s.

Conrad_R_Hoffman
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by Conrad_R_Hoffman » Tue May 28, 2019 3:43 pm

Obviously lubricants have to be chosen for the application, but in this case it would be hard to find a grease that wasn't up to the job. I seem to remember being surprised that one of my Kluber high speed spindle greases also mentioned open gears as an application. Seemed like an expensive way to go, but I'll check the data sheets tonight.
Conrad

1947 Logan 211 Lathe, Grizzly G1006 mill/drill, Clausing DP,
Boyar-Schultz 612H surface grinder, Sunnen hone, import
bandsaw, lots of measurement stuff, cutters, clutter & stuff.


"May the root sum of the squares of the Forces be with you."

Downwindtracker2
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by Downwindtracker2 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:00 am

That moly comment is complete and utter BS. He has it mixed up with EP additives, some EP additives, but not all, eat brass. You find it in gear oils. Open gear grease has a tackiness to it, to hold it in place. SWEPCO makes it in handy spray cans.

Kluber makes great grease, but in industry Mobil 101 is considered the best available. It's so good, at a Petrocan refinery, they bought a competitors grease for the couplings.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers

Harold_V
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by Harold_V » Fri May 31, 2019 2:00 am

Yep! That's what I know from just recently having investigated the proper gear lube to use in the muller I rebuilt. Because it has a bronze gear, modern lubricants can't be used, as they dissolve copper alloys. Older hypoid gear lube is acceptable, and that's what I chose to use.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by Conrad_R_Hoffman » Fri May 31, 2019 11:30 am

Well known to people with old British sports cars having manual transmissions. They called out GL-4 lube back then. The problem is some gear oils started saying "suitable for GL-4 & GL-5 applications", but I was never sure if they were safe to use. Then there was a spec for limited slip rear ends, that may have been GL-4. It was so much simpler back when you could just throw in some whale oil and call it good to go.
Conrad

1947 Logan 211 Lathe, Grizzly G1006 mill/drill, Clausing DP,
Boyar-Schultz 612H surface grinder, Sunnen hone, import
bandsaw, lots of measurement stuff, cutters, clutter & stuff.


"May the root sum of the squares of the Forces be with you."

John Hasler
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by John Hasler » Fri May 31, 2019 12:01 pm

Harold_V wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:00 am
Yep! That's what I know from just recently having investigated the proper gear lube to use in the muller I rebuilt. Because it has a bronze gear, modern lubricants can't be used, as they dissolve copper alloys. Older hypoid gear lube is acceptable, and that's what I chose to use.

H
I recently investigated gear lube for the worm gear containing gearbox for my power hacksaw. I found that due to EPA requirements modern automotive lubricants no longer contain anything that attacks copper alloys (this may not be true of industrial libricants). I confirmed the results of my literature search with experiments. I ended up mixing synthetic engine oil with Lucas oil additive (which is all hydrocarbons) to get the right viscosity. I don't have enough hours on it yet to say that it isn't destroying the the gear, though.

Downwindtracker2
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by Downwindtracker2 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:14 pm

I'm not sure if the brass eating EP gearoil is all that hungry . When stated at the mill they were using EP220 gear oil in the Radicons .A worm and brass gear angle reduction gearbox. A big No No, but looking in the inspection holes I didn't see any damage. EP 220 is the most common industrial gear oil . They had racks of various gear oils for different machines. Some EP, some not..At least they had lists for the machines. Machine companies get a kick back if they put oil company stickers on. And their EP 220 would all have different names.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers

Harold_V
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by Harold_V » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:01 am

Downwindtracker2 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:14 pm
I'm not sure if the brass eating EP gearoil is all that hungry .
Interesting thought, but I wasn't willing to gamble on a large bronze gear that is no longer available, and was in very serviceable condition. I made sure my choice was compatible, at least according to the maker.

While the gear had minor wear, it drives strictly in one direction, so it was reversed on the shaft, presenting an unused gear face to the worm, which I had to make.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Downwindtracker2
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Re: Which grease to replace old specification?

Post by Downwindtracker2 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:55 am

On the wire drawing machines the wheels were as much as 3' or more in diameter . At least they used the correct oils. On a couple of the big machines we switched from Senate 460 to a SWEPCO 85/140 moly. The cost saving in power paid for the expensive oil. A by product was the improved wear.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers

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