Cold Saw Questions

[Jacin]

I recently grabbed a Brobo "super 300" cold saw. The unit appears to be in really nice shape and I just couldn't pass it up (deal) the only problem is that I don't know squat about them.

It's got a 2 speed motor - but other than observing the speeds are SLOW and SLOWER I have yet to determine what the actual speed are.

So here are my first questions:

What coolant should I use??? This has an integral sump (chip separator) and is difficult to clean in there (I know) so I am rather afraid of any water based coolants. The next consideration is this is in my HOME shop meaning that there may be LONG stretches of time where this goes UNUSED (several months potentially). Given this my gut tells me to lean to a simple oil based type lube. FWIW I cut mostly steel - ocassionally aluminum. Anything "simple" I should try???? Am I nuts to consider ATF????

Next does anyone have one of these?? Or one similar enough to give me some pointers???
Presently the blade is shot - I priced them from Brobo for 99 bucks (ouch!) ANy advice here?? Who to buy - material???? Tooth count etc.


As an aside - what are the Pro's / Con's for the HIGH SPEED cold saws versus my Low Speed one??

Sorry for the zillion questions - I guess it shows how excited I am!!!!

Thanks fellas!!!!

P.S. I am REALLY stoked to get ahold of this - I couldn't even argue (much) with the price.

[srrl5]

I have used a number of different slow cold saws and they all used waterbased coolant. Not sure what you meen by HIGH SPEED cold saw.

The tooth count like most saw depends on what you are cutting. Thin wall tube needs fine tooth large solid bar needs course tooth.

Most of the blades can be sharpened.

David

[Jacin]

Hi David, By "Low Speed" I mean for cutting FERROUS metal with a spindle speed of around 50/100 rpm - versus the "NON FERROUS" models that run spindle speeds around 1725RPM and higher. I guess my curiousity pondered the question of what would happen if one were to cut steel on a High Speed machine - but really that's off topic since mine's low speed.

But to clarify, do I treat this like a regular bandsaw - in terms of blade selection and tooth counts???? Do they even make Variable Tooth blades for these??? If so is it a good idea in this type of saw??

Is carbide a good idea??? At first glance I saw Cobalt HSS which was pricey enough. Just looking for some basics.

As for the coolant - I remember guys had issues with "growth" in some water based coolants - do I remember this correctly?? There was a little "old" coolant in the saws sump - it at least appeared to be 100% oil - but not sure what.

Sorry for the million and one questions - I am just out of my comfort zone here.

[Ries]

I have a Haberle, and I just run the Haberle coolant in it- I buy a 1 gallon bottle, mix it about 20 to 1 with water, and the 1 gallon lasts years.
So even if it is 25 or 35 bucks, it amortizes out to almost nothing.
After 6 months or so, the coolant does get a little milky, but I have never had a problem with smell or animal life in it.
I wouldnt want an oil base coolant- since this is a drip coolant system, you get a fair amount of the stuff on your material- the oil based stuff would be a big pain on parts you want to weld- you would have to basically degrease em.
I sometimes let pieces of pipe or square tube drain back into the sump before I take em away, but solids arent a problem accumulating coolant- it dries quickly, isnt sticky or gooey, and doesnt seem to affect tig welding at all.

As far as blades, you can send em back for resharpening. So a pair of blades, one on the machine and a spare sharp one, should last you almost forever. IF you dont break one- easiest way to do that is drop it on the material, rather than gently let it start its cut. My blades run more like $165, so it hurts when we break one. Its been over 5 years since the last break, and that guy hasnt worked here in years.
I run a relatively coarse tooth blade, its probably about a 180 tooth on a 350 mm (14"diameter) blade. Its the blade they recommend for 1/8" wall tubing or up to 1" solid round. It works fine on most everything- I cut 2" solid with it, and yeah, its probably a bit slower at that then a coarser blade would be, but it gives a great cut in most commonly used sizes of stuff.
I get both my coolant and blades, and resharpening, from Doringer in LA-
http://www.doringer.com/sharpening.htm# ... 0Selection
They have quick turnaround on UPS shipped blades, and know their stuff. Brobo might be closer to you, I dont know- I thought the scotchman saws were actually Brobo's?

My saw is 44 rpm/ 88 rpm. That is about average for a ferrous saw.
The high speed works just fine for me on aluminum and bronzes. I am sure if you had the real non ferrous saw, which runs at more like 3000 rpm, you would get a finer cut on aluminum, but the high speed on mine is plenty good for most things.

[Jacin]

Ries, those were some excellent points - that I hadn't considered - good thing I asked!!!!

So now that I'm convinced water soluable is the way to go I have to ask - what brand is recommended??? Is there a BIG difference between them I notice that the prices vary greatly - how different are they??


Thanks

[Herm Williams]

Hello
I use Do-All for band saw and cold saw. That oil in your sump is probably left over when the water evaporated. The sales person at do-all said to wet your finger in the mixture then try to snap your fingers, if you can still snap your fingers add some more coolant.
Another point with the cold saw is the wide cut, bandsaw about 35 thou and coldsaw about 125 thou. This can add up when you are cutting hundreds of parts.
my two cents worth
re

[Flybynight]

I toured the Scotchman factory about a year ago. (About 200 miles from where I live)
Didn't know anything about their cold saws. (Only have use one a couple of times)
But, I did notice their band saws were "DoAll" looking. When I asked he said, "You know your equipment, yes they are made by DoAll."
Jim

[AAA]

Hey Jacin,

piitty you're not in Oregon, or I'd buy it off of you - and solve all your problems! he he.

Man great score, the Brbo's are made in australia and are a real quality product.

Coolant - Yes you are nuts to consider ATF - it's carcinogenic amoung other reasons. Just use plain old water soluble oil, but mix it 5-1 rather than the usual 25-1. If you're worried about it going off, get some Castrol semi synthetic or similar. If you can't find any - I'll send you some (anything to keep a nice Aussie saw going!).

Blades - problem with cold saws is you really need a few different blades. At least 2. Finer pitches are used for tubing and small diameters, whilst larger pitches are used for bigger stock. there's lots of useful blade info on Brobo's US site: http://www.brobo-usa.com/reference/contents.cfm
Get used to the metric system as most things with cold saws will be metric. For the 300 you want a 300mm dia x 2.5mm thickness x 40 arbor blade.

The 2 speed thing was intended to allow one to do things like Aluminum and tube.(in high speed). Low speed is 21 RPM and High speed is 42 RPM - unless you have the Non-ferous model - 1170/2340.

What do you mean by the blade is shot? Blades look different to normal saw blades and they often look like the teeth are chipped. If it's just blunt, they can be resharped for around $15-20.

$90 a blade for that size is about standard. I've been dealing with these guys lately:
http://bandsawblade.com/hsscoldsawblades.htm

there prices are average, but the shipping is cheaper than others.

when sawing, it sounds like it's tearing up the blade, but produces a beautiful milled finish.

does yours have the twin vices?

Mike

[Jacin]

Hi Mike, Thanks for the advice. Yeah the ATF comment was made sorta half heartedly tongue in cheek - you know what it's like to have a NEW TOY and NOT be able to try it!!!!! I was ready to try anything. The old blade was abused but no chipped teeth - just heavily worn - so much so that the teeth (corners-were rounded) - I picked one up, but like you said I am in the hunt for more (cheap!!) the good thing is that I'm in NO HURRY - at least not yet!!!

I'm very glad I asked about the different coolants here - there were LOTS of points I never considered!!!

Mine's definitely the ferrous model as the blade does NOT spin fast at all.
The funny thing is that on FAST speed - it ticks off my phase converter - kinda amazed me since I run my lathes, bandsaw, mill, etc off it. But I did notice that if I run anything else it works fine. I think teh higher speed is making it unhappy - I ran into this before with my Pullmax - I will add a heavy pulley to my converter and see it that helps again.


I don't have the twin vices, but can see where they'd be useful. I guess I'l just have to SUFFER without them ......... ........


Many thanks for the information - ESPECIALLY the links!!!!!!

[AAA]

Jacin,

Cold saw blades have the teeth cut weird. On my blades, there's one square tooth followed by one with the right hand edge missing, then a square tooth followed by one with the left hand edge missing and so on.

If you're doing a lot of stainless or any quantity of DOM tube, investing the extra few dollars to get Cobalt blades is well worth the $$.

Once you've got a blade, they'll last a long time and can be resharpened many times. Only time I ever trashed a blade was cutting something bigger than the rated capacity of the machine - broke the blade.

Here's a link to Brobo Aust's site, shows the capacities of the smaller machine you have. No capacities are a lot less when doing angles.

http://www.brobo.com.au/metal_sawing_specifications.php

Mike