Radial Drill Table Restoration??

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Wanna-Be
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:17 am
Location: Brady, WA

Radial Drill Table Restoration??

Post by Wanna-Be »

I'm purchasing a very large and old American Machine Tool radial drill. At least 90 yo.

It is very complete and original, however it has seen 50 years of "table abuse". Seems every operator "had" to find a different spot on the table to drill into. Many of these holes are 1/2 to 3/4" deep. Some on the edge of the tee slots. Some are end mill groves for several inches. There is hardly a flat area left to work on.

The talbe is about 30" dia., heavy casting, about an inch or more thick in most areas.

It has been suggested that I just clean up the surface and put a thick metal plate on top. However, I would prefer to retain the use of the table top and Tee slots.

I'm considering, several methods of repairing some or most of the major holes and do a light resurfacing of the whole table top. One of my plans would be to clean up some of the holes with an end mill, insert and stake a steel plug in each, prior to the clean up cut. Some of the smaller, 3/8" or less, I could drill and tap for a plug.

That said, I need suggestion on repairs to the holes and gouges in the edge of the Tee slots. I'm considering SS welding of these and other irregular holes. I would braze these but would need a very big preheat/postheat oven or method. Arc or tig would minimize this heat effect to some degree since the table would sink the heat a lot. (my opinion).

Just thinking out loud. Not committed to any of the above thoughts.

I welcome any suggestions or related experiences.

I will get a picture the next time I visit it's existing home. Very interesting machine and that is what intriqes me.
Jet vert Mill, Champion 12X30 lathe, Amer. Mach. Tool radial drill, 24X60 LeBlond lathe, Scharmann 3" Hrz Brg Mill, Steptoe 18" Shaper, S/B Shaper,B&S (No.4 36") Gear Cutting Mach., Verson 22.5T Press Brake, Enco 12" hrz. saw, McEnglevan foundry furnace, Rockwell 14X42 lathe, K&T 2H univ horz. mill,DoAll 16-2 Vrt. bandsaw,Canedy-Otto drill press,Buffalo Iron Worker
JeffinWIS
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:04 pm

Post by JeffinWIS »

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steamin10
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Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

table

Post by steamin10 »

Ya , boy, thats a tough one. I would not try to weld, braze, tig, all the damage at all. It is a casting and the spot heat will cause stresses that will not work in your favor. Short of sending it to a foundry to have it copied, I agree that a filled Epoxy putty will get you a good work surface for next to no cost. a few swipes with a plastic spreader, and a buffing with a sander will get you home. I would suggest a light sandblasting of the surface to complete the de-oiling and provide surface 'tooth' for the putty to bite on. Good luck!
Rich_Carlstedt
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Location: Green Bay Wisconsin USA
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Post by Rich_Carlstedt »

I would just make a new plate to go on top of the old one.
If you likt T slots, make it thick.
I think you may be able to get away with a Aluminum plate.
Talk to some machinery dealers.
Sometimes they scrap out large machines, and you could take a horizontal mill table and cut it in half and mount it on top of the old table for example

Rich
magic9r
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Sheffield, England

Post by magic9r »

For larger repairs you can mill out a section to accomodate a block insert, screw it down into the base with countersunk machine screws, re-machine required slots etc. finish with epoxy over screws & small defects.
Don't stake plugs in place, degrease thoroughly & use the appropriate locktite adhesive or a pourable epoxy.
MikeC
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Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:05 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Post by MikeC »

I like magic9r's approach. Fill with epoxy wherevere there is a hole and use inserts to repair the damage to the T slots. If you try to use an electric weld quick-fix, it'll break that edge almost instantly when you tighten up on it. Cast iron works best with a mechanical fix when possible.

BTW, how big is this radial? I ask because I VERY nearly bit off more than I could chew with my 3ft arm Fosdick sensitive last month. I have discovered that a radial drill is the only thing more decieving than a shaper when it comes to weight. My relatively "little" Fosdick is nearly 6000lbs. The slightly larger 5ft Dreses at work is probably bumping 5 tons. Beware.

Also be extremely careful moving it. You will find a hole in the arm but that is NOT for slinging the machine. It is for removing and servicing the arm. The C/G will be a good bit aft of that hole and you might damage the machine by trying to lift it with that hole in the arm. The arm will try to slide up the column, even with the clamps tight, and might damage the elevation mechanism and/or gearing on top of the column. Sling it around the column and move the head to work the C/G.

Lastly, these are insanely easy to flip over. Lock ALL clamps and make sure the column cannot rotate. Let the arm down as far as possible to keep the C/G low and stay on your toes the whole time. I did not tip mine.... the idiots at the City garage did before I got there to move it. I was absolutely furious. Luckily, they didn't damage the spindle or other irreplaceable precision parts, but they broke some stuff and bent the arbor on the 18N chuck when it hit. Since I got it for nearly nothing, I took it home anyway and fixed it back up. Haven't made a hole with it yet, but I do have it running now.
Wanna-Be
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:17 am
Location: Brady, WA

Radial Drill Table Restoration??

Post by Wanna-Be »

Thanks for the replies. I well be adapting some of most.

In the end, and after much thought, I plan (subject to change) to do a partial restoration of the suface to reestablish the table center and flat/true surface, so I can use it to to mount a 20" rotary table. This will serve for 90% of my needs. I have plenty of work clearance under the spindle and if not, I can remove the rotary table and use the old surface.

I revisited this old machine shop again yesterday and with flash lite I was able to make a couple measurement and inspect the machine some more. It has a 24" table, (eye-ball) about 30-36" arm and maybe 10" spindle travel. The column is 12-16" dia, vertical travel is about 30". Power feed and arm vert. travel.

I would guess that she weights between 4000-6000#, as she stands. I can remove the rear base mounted motor and first reduction gear box. the table and maybe the head from the arm. There will still be a lot of gearing and controls at the top of the column and none of this helps the CG, but I plan do vertical lifts as much as possible to reduce this danger. My trailer can only handle about 4500# and my fork lift is only 2000# so I will have to do a lot of dismantling.

(while I had run of this old shop (mostly in the dark) I located a lot of other old machines that may be of interest to others in the Pac. NW area. I'll discribe all this in another post. I already purchase, nearly site-unseen, the ~30" X 8' lathe. much more tooling, etc.)

Steve
Jet vert Mill, Champion 12X30 lathe, Amer. Mach. Tool radial drill, 24X60 LeBlond lathe, Scharmann 3" Hrz Brg Mill, Steptoe 18" Shaper, S/B Shaper,B&S (No.4 36") Gear Cutting Mach., Verson 22.5T Press Brake, Enco 12" hrz. saw, McEnglevan foundry furnace, Rockwell 14X42 lathe, K&T 2H univ horz. mill,DoAll 16-2 Vrt. bandsaw,Canedy-Otto drill press,Buffalo Iron Worker
MikeC
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:05 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Post by MikeC »

Unless this beast is pretty close by, I'd try to borrow or rent a larger trailer. I have a dual axle 7000lb trailer and it was very nearly maxed out carrying my relatively little Fosdick.

The base, arm, and column are going to push that 4500lb capacity, even with everything else removed. I would NOT try to move this drill in one piece with a forklift. There's just too much stuff way up high. One bump or slight tilt as the wheels roll over a rock and over she goes. If you have no way to lift it you need to slide it and load/unload with some long ramps.

Mine was loaded with an overhead crane, easy way to do things. Unloading at home, I had nothing even close to capable of lifting this thing. I backed the trailer up to the shop so the tail of the trailer was over the concrete floor. I then blocked under the back of the trailer and jacked the front end up as far as I could get it to make sliding easier. Don't forget the blocking or you will get a real god look at the underside of your truck when the machine gets past the rear axle. Also chock both sides of the wheels of the trailer so it doesn't run off.

I have steel runway matting plates as my trailer deck. Thick corugated steel planks about 20" wide x 12ft long that hook together and form temporary runways on soft or sandy ground. I have two extra sections that I lay down on the tail of the trailer to form ramps. I block up under the ramps about every three feet to prevent sag.

Hook a come-along to one of the posts in the shop (down at floor level so it doesn't break), and put a load on the machine. Go around back and "ooch" it with a prybar of your choice. The machine will slide about 3-6" and stop as soon as the tension is off the come-along. Run back over, take another pull, run back and "ooch". You have now moved a foot. Once the machine is on the ramps, move the come-along anchor point to the ramps so that the pull is working to push the ramps under the machine and helps keep the trailer from moving. As the machine gets near the bottom of the ramps, go back to the post to finish off.

I have both unloaded and loaded this way. It takes about two hours to oad or unload a machine this way and you will feel it for the next week. The advantage over other methods is that the machine is never in danger of getting off balance, is not going to get away from you and roll over something, and it can be done by one person safely. I have moved several machines this way and have found it to be the best approach for something this heavy and unstable if you have no overhead lifting capability.
AndrewMawson
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:46 pm
Location: Battle, East Sussex

Post by AndrewMawson »

If it really is like a piece of Swiss Cheese, I would mill it all off down to the bottom of the Tee slots, and bolt a new composite surface made from two sizes of cold rolled bar (wider on top of narrower) to make up new Tee slot to match the original size. Then surface it all off true. Loctite the bolts.
Andrew Mawson
Battle, East Sussex, UK
MikeC
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:05 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Post by MikeC »

I agree, Andrew.. but he'll need a good sized planer to shave down that box table. It will probably not fit under the knee of any reasonable sized mill and would probably exceed the weight limitations of the knee. I don't even think I could do it on my bridge mill and that's saying a lot. This is probably a 24" cube of iron.

One question I forgot, Wanna-be... is this one of those old americans that had the tiltable arm and head? a REAL radial drill?
Wanna-Be
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:17 am
Location: Brady, WA

Radial Drill Table Restoration??

Post by Wanna-Be »

This old radial drill has a round table on a swing arm, similar to much smaller regular drill presses.

The total diameter of the table (including the gutter) is 28". Working area is 24". The thickness is about 5-6". What remains of the tee slots would take about a 1/2" stud (haven't measured the tee nut size).

Just thinking out loud here: If I could get enough rpm out of the radial spindle, perhaps I could do a rough clean up cut with a large face cutter. Then a abrasive cup wheel. Couldn't be done in a single pass unless I find a way to rotate the table while feeding the spindle over the table surface. Or mount a tool post grinder on the radial arm and do sweeping cuts.

BTW. I mentioned a lot of other equipment in this abandon machine shop. I will be posting a list/discription of what is still left for anyone else interested in the Pac. NW.

Steve
Jet vert Mill, Champion 12X30 lathe, Amer. Mach. Tool radial drill, 24X60 LeBlond lathe, Scharmann 3" Hrz Brg Mill, Steptoe 18" Shaper, S/B Shaper,B&S (No.4 36") Gear Cutting Mach., Verson 22.5T Press Brake, Enco 12" hrz. saw, McEnglevan foundry furnace, Rockwell 14X42 lathe, K&T 2H univ horz. mill,DoAll 16-2 Vrt. bandsaw,Canedy-Otto drill press,Buffalo Iron Worker
MikeC
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:05 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Post by MikeC »

Steve, here's my machine... http://home.att.net/~micallahan/fosdick.html

It also has a table like a typical drill press, but its longer to make use of the arm travel. This arm swings on the column, so it can be moved to work directly off the base. It is also a tilt table with a worm gear tilt drive and a steady rest out on the end to keep it from flexing down due to load or feed pressure. Right now the drive system including the motor is off and being cleaned up. After a repaint, it will be back in service. I am going back to the original color... black. Will match my black L&S lathe nicely.

The American I was asking about I have only seen in a few old pictures. This thing must be 100yrs old. It has an arm that swings on the column like our machines, but that arm has a swivel up at the column that lets you lay the head down to bore horizontally across the table. Further, the head has a swivel that tilts parallel to the axis of the arm, so it can actually be tilted to drill a hole in something standing in FRONT of the machine or make a hole drilling back towards the column. It would be the equivalent of tilt and nod on a Bridgeport or Tree milling machine. It looked HUGE, though. Maybe an 8ft arm.

I would not try to run a facing mill to plane the table. Unless you can get a drawbar through the spindle (not likely), it's probably gonna spit that head and arbor out when you side load the Morse taper.
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