couple questions on shapers

[kendall]

I'm planning a small homebuilt shaper, I've looked at a couple of illustrations/plans for home built shapers, and while I understand the operation, construction etc, I've not realy found a lot of information on what they actualy 'need' (not much on operation)

For one thing, does the cutting stroke need to be a fast stroke, or fairly slow?
many hand operated designs would have to be slow, but many of the powered versions seem to have a fast stroke going by the motor rpm and pulley sizes.

how does surface finish relate with fast/slow strokes, or is the surface finish more directly related to strength and rigidity of the shaper itself?

I have a mill so so figure that would be my 'fast' machine, but want to use the shaper for flatter work and hopefully get a better finish on them.

also, always interested in finding more plans, so if you know of any freely available I'd like to hear about them please!

Thanks
ken.

[4catmom]

Ken,
Commercially-built shapers had the number of strokes per minute and length of the stroke adjustable, so they could be adjusted to match the size of the workpiece. A longer stroke would use a lower number of strokes per minute. The goal is to obtain a surface speed suited to the material being cut. For example, steel would be about 150 ft/minute, higher with aluminum.

[Michael_Moore]

Ken, you should check out some of the material and links on my shaper page:

http://www.eurospares.com/shapers.htm

Mechanical "lever and bull gear" shapers like my Rhodes retract the ram faster than they extend it. There are discussions and diagrams in the "Shaper, Slotter and Boring Mill Work" document on my website that will explain why that is so.

cheers,
Michael

[mrb37211]

Have a look at the Gingery book on building a shaper...circa $10 from http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/index.html There is also a Gingery builder gtoup on Yahoo.

Gingery used home cast aluminum parts bolted together for most of his machines, including the shaper. Some folks have duplicated its functionality with cut material.

Charles

[MikeC]

Unless this shaper project is just for fun, you are in cheap shaper heaven if you live in Michigan. Really nice ones go for a couple of hundred bucks up there.

[kendall]

Great info guys, apreciate it!

Dan,
most of the plans I'd looked at were hand operated, and according to the layout on them there wasn't very much adjustment for speed, will attempt to modify for speed control, will likely be manualy operated, no power presently.

Micheal, Checked your site, lots of info, plenty of ideas to play with!


Charles, Most of the shaper I'm building is from snagging parts from 'dead' equipment, scavenging things I was going to send to the scrap yard, here in Kentwood just getting carried away with charcoal lighter fluid will get you a visit from the city boys, so casting aluminum is pretty much out of the question!


Mike c,
Every one tells me that!, but haven't even seen a shaper up here except for a huge one at the scrap yard, and that one was so large I would never be able to move it or fit it in the garage! I wouldn't turn down a chance to get one, but just spent $600 on a couple other toys, and exhausted my "but it's not even TWO of your car payments" arguement with the wife for a while, so it's partialy being cheap, but mostly it's the challenge and fun.

Thanks again!
ken.

[millman5]

As you lengthen the stroke the The surface speed picks up as the strokes per min. remain the same.

How exactly the geometry is figured out on my Cinci. shapers I haven't took time to figure out. I do know however, the return stroke is faster than the cutting stroke.

While we are on shapers. I am looking for a couple T-4-S tool holders for mine. JH Williams or Armstromg.
In viewing Armstrong's online catalog, It don't look like they even supply one that large anymore. Probably couldn't afford one new anyway. Noticed in an older MSC catalog the 4-S for HSS turning was $258.00 Which is about 1/2 What I paid for the 20" Cinci. Shaper

[MikeC]

Ebay is your friend for those big holders. They go for nearly nothing when they show up. You want carbide holders without built-in rake for shaper use. Looks to be a RH one in Ebay stores under DJ machinery.

[poohbear2767]

There's a Gingery Tool Builder groups on Yahoo?

Do you have the address so I can check it out.

I have a lot of the Gingery books.

Including the furnace, lathe, mill, shaper, etc.
All of the machine shop series.

That would be cool to talk to other scroungers like myself.

Thanks.

Pooh Bear

[millman5]

Ebay is your friend for those big holders. They go for nearly nothing when they show up. You want carbide holders without built-in rake for shaper use. Looks to be a RH one in Ebay stores under DJ machinery.

I had done a standard search on ebay & nothing came up. I have dealt with Doug Dietrich / DJ Machinery many times in the past. I purchased a Williams holder he had listed But It Now.

Thanks for the heads up though

[MikeC]

http://cgi.ebay.com/NO-4-R-ARMSTRONG-TO ... dZViewItem

$4.99 no bids yet. Looks to be a raked toolholder.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lathe-tool-holder-A ... dZViewItem

DJ machinery, $11.99 BIN. that's a zero rake one for sure.

There are others, but they look to be raked lathe toolholders or just outrageous (some as high as $75 and $80).

[Mike_Burdick]

Ken,

Here's an accessory that is very handy! Probably not what you are talking about but nevertheless...

This is from Frank Ford's site, he’s a member of this forum as well!

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Machini ... otter.html