Modifying cast iron with nickel content engine block.

[Wizard]

Hi, I'm doing bascially hand machining metal for awhile, back then had done 2 courses in machine shop in high shool years ago but metal-making in me is still burning. Laying out the plan for chrysler 2.2/2.5 block and neon/stratus DOHC hybrid job. People have done this before but mine have some differences.

The most recent was sleeve new slip rings of alternator by grinding down worn out slip rings and solder new copper sleeve cut from thick copper fittings then grind true by hand & modified dermel and stack of wood 2x4's, nails. Now .001 or less, thank very much for rebuilder for not doing this job as I asked when I sent old alternator in they simply swapped mine for another. Blah.

Anyway, trying to find information and advices about plugging a cast iron with nickel content to block 3 oil returns as part of putting on 16V valve head custom setup.

How much steel or iron plugs (say 1/2" long) for a press fit but not to crack the block. The hole will be drilled larger and reamed for smooth finish with a step to prevent plugs from sliding down if fit is not tight enough at operating temps (say 150-200C?)

Also mill part of the rear block just enough to smooth, creating flat surface with small ledge to mount bars with sealer and bolts threaded into block so they provide new oil return fittings. Idea that ledge to prevent bar from pushed down from headgasket compressing on that bar. Fittings for hose to direct oil back to oil pain.

The ones I have seen used threaded plugs into both block and head and milled flat and drilled new holes into side of head above the exhaust ports so lines has to go around the manifold and down to oil pan. I do not like all this design appoaches that I have seen.

So I am asking your thoughts on press in plugs into cast-iron with nickel content, how much is just right so I don't crack the block?

Cheers, Wizard

[GlennW]

Wizard,

Perhaps knowing what diameter plugs, and what material they were made from would net some answers.

I'll stick my neck out here and assume you meant 150°-200°F. You may have retention problems other than those little plugs at 150°-200° C

A magician couldn't keep one running at those temps

Glenn

[Wizard]

Okay, I'll try.

Right now this is in research stage and was trying to get your knowledge.

These holes are plugged with 1/2" plugs to give you the idea how big the holes are. Another reason I thought if machined bores smooth with a finish reamer and machined plug pressed in, then I don't worry about oil or coolant leaking past these plug gaps.

Here's the picture of my engine block deck unmodified with felpro gasket laid on:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/jpero/talldeck ... etlaid.jpg

and modified using threaded plugs (not mine but giving a example.) Note the back of the block is flat across, and only need very little cutting to give a bar to sit against with drain back fittings out the bottom of bar:

http://www.juxsa.com/carstuff/16v/more% ... hined2.jpg

Reasons I do not like this about these oil lines around HOT exhaust manifold:

http://www.juxsa.com/carstuff/16v/more% ... 0lines.jpg

Cheers, Wizard

[Jose Rivera]

That's going to be interesting running at temperatures of 302° to 392° F

Keep us posted please!

[Wizard]

Yes will do as I go as funds and progress can allow.

The question on how much oversize amount without cracking the cast iron block around a steel or iron that is pressed in into reamed bore and don't get too loose at operating temp? Is there a info on determining that?

I thought the temp range would be reasonable and I did state C not F for 230C to 300C or so because of coolant doesn't get any hotter than that for aluminum alloy and cast iron.

Cheers, Wizard

[Jose Rivera]

What are you going to use for coolant?

Water boils at 100° C

Mercury boils at 356.58° C

Lead melts at 327.502° C

Are you going to cool it with molten metals?

Don't know much about engines though.

[magic9r]

Don't the nuclear boys use liquid metal for the primary coolant in some reactors?
That might do the trick,
Nick

[Lloyd]

What are you going to use for coolant?

Water boils at 100° C

Mercury boils at 356.58° C

Lead melts at 327.502° C

Are you going to cool it with molten metals?

Don't know much about engines though.

Jose, merely FYI. . . . . This link shows a good printable chart re the boiling points of water at various pressures. Good to have in your binder for future reference.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boili ... d_926.html

In this thread, the relevant temps (at sea level) are from 14.7 PSIA (A = absolute, = 1 atmosphere) to about a practical limit for production cars of 2 atmospheres (30 PSIA) or in every day talk, a 15 PSIG (G = Gage) radiator cap. For 15 PSIG a check of the referenced chart shows ~250F or 121C as the boiling point for water. This is why we can run engines at a much higher temp for greater efficiency.

You propose in interesting question although, heat dissipation from various parts of the engine are handled in specific ways, perhaps too numerous to mention here.

Lloyd

[Wizard]

Whoops. Hehe.. Engine block uses antifreeze coolant and water. 50/50 mix. And I know coolant pressure is appox 16PSI.

I know that cast iron metal is slightly hotter than the maximum temp of the coolant by how much I don't know.

That why I threw up the estimated numbers of the metal temp at the deck area where press fit plugs are to help with differences in the hole size and the plug size in term of thermal expansion to determine the amount of fit for press fit without cracking the cast iron block.

Does that make sense?

Cheers, Wizard

[Mcgyver]

I'm not fully appreciating what you're doing here and all the challenges, but why not just us some loctite; one of the high temperature cylindrical ones. 620 irrc, but check, may be wrong on the number. no risk of cracking the block and they're good to something like 500 degrees

[Lloyd]

Whoops. Hehe.. Engine block uses antifreeze coolant and water. 50/50 mix. And I know coolant pressure is appox 16PSI.

I know that cast iron metal is slightly hotter than the maximum temp of the coolant by how much I don't know.

That why I threw up the estimated numbers of the metal temp at the deck area where press fit plugs are to help with differences in the hole size and the plug size in term of thermal expansion to determine the amount of fit for press fit without cracking the cast iron block.

Does that make sense?

Cheers, Wizard

Wizard, I am not a fan of pressing steel into cast iron wherein there is little supporting periphery. Too easy to crack something.

Consider cleaning up these transfer holes suitable for tapping a straight thread:

Select a bare bolt, no plating.

Employ the same 'goo' used to seal wet sleeves in a CI block.

At the top of the threaded hole, with a three cornered file, make a few notches suitable to receive material staked from the plug.

Add the goo, wind the bolt into the hole to the desired depth. Allow the goo to set.

Cut the bolt just above the block.

With a 60* punch, stake the bolt into the notches you filed in the block.

When the block is decked. life is good.

Lloyd

[Wizard]

See the pic of this block's deck? Never mind the gasket laid on it... the see how is thickness of cast iron around the 3 large holes in middle at front are oil drain backs drilled all the way down to the crankcase.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/jpero/talldeck ... etlaid.jpg

Lloyd, still don't think the thickness is not thick enough for a lightly pressed in steel or cast iron plugs, machined to size? I'm just saying that I ream partially way down like less than 1/2" depth and use the step in the hole to keep plug from going any farther after pressing in coated with the sleeve cylinder sealer (thanks for the tip!).

Does that make any more clearer? Any new issues with this new idea?

I did tap a 1/2" NPT into aluminum to take 3/8 to 1/2" adapter so I can put 3/8" npt sensor there because P.O. completely ruined the thread and nothing can seal off coolant from leaking. Man, that was HARD job to turn that fat 1/2" NPT tap in. (yes 1/2 turn in, then 1/4 back to break cuttings and plenty of lube and did use correct drill bit for that). That why I'm wary about tapping this big.

Cheers, Wizard