Parlec Vise Hopeless?

[gmann109]

Yes, you are correct. We should differentiate between the vice components lifting and the part lifting...


And yes, even if the part lifts, the Kurt will hold it securely!

Yes, really. I'm afraid that my former vise will toss the work at me. I'm pretty sure that I'll be OK with the Kurt vise.

[lakeside53]

The only thing wrong with my Kurt is that I want two of them

[SteveHGraham]

I wasn't able to come up with any stupid questions this morning, so I'm taking the day off.

[dirtcrasher]

Not that I know much But:

I know when things wouldn't set right in the vice, it was a combination of the right "hit" and the tension being applied on the object being held.

Even when using parallels, there seems to be a sof touch to get your piece to clamp perfectly parallel to the vice etc. If the vice was too snug, or the hit too hard, it would either not move or bounce away.....

Good luck

[Jose Rivera]

Often, what is bringing the part up of the parallels is just the part itself being out of form in some way and has nothing to do with the vise or parallels. Hitting it, in this case, doesn't make the problem better.

I always make sure that I have perfectly squared sides if possible.
In the case that I don't ... I use one or two Starret hold-downs.

Unfortunately many times where the equipment or machine is blamed is actually the machinist what the problem is

[websterz]

I was going to work on this early in the day, but I started off by crashing a cutter (not rotating) into a workpiece and knocking the mill out of tram. I was not sure whether I had destroyed the mill or what, but I wasted no time in wetting my pants, just to be on the safe side. Looks like the mill is okay. One thing surprises me. No matter how tight the nuts are, you can move the head by turning the worm gears. I didn't notice that before.

After I was done weeping and tramming the mill, I put the vise back, stuck two 123 blocks in it (centered properly) and cranked it down. The bottom block stayed tight. So it looks like the vise works, provided the operator has some clue what he's doing.

Here's a great tip I hope you will all put to good use. When the power feed slows down suddenly, it doesn't mean there is something wrong with it, and you should probably take it out of gear.

Sometimes we need a good cry to put it all in perspective. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

[Jose Rivera]

Learning to machine without experienced guidance is like trying to master a computer by oneself.

The difference here are the dangers involved using power machinery and sharp tools.

It would be wonderful if machine tool classes would become parts of school curriculum as they once were.

Pretty much like being told to touch the water with your toe before jumping in head first.

[Napper]

I wish we used kurt vises at work. Our company buys the GS branded vise. I think it is a taiwan clone. To make our vises almost as good as a kurt you have to spend about two hours doing a slight mod. Clamp two 123 blocks about 4 to 5 inches apart. You should clamp across the 3 length with the 1 inch side sitting on the bottom of the vise. Clamp the blocks with the same force you would normally use to tighten a vise do not tap anything down at this time. Using a test indicator mounted in a previously trammed spindle, scan vertically the jaws of the vise. You want to see how the vise jaws react to the clamping pressure. You want the jaws to read zero at the top and zero at the bottom. An even better result is a very slight taper of zero at the top and minus .0002 to -.0005 at the bottom. Yes this means surface grinding a slight taper on each vise jaw to get the desired result. After this mod a hammer is not required very often. Flatness of less than .0005 is common. Using a hammer to beat the snot out of a work piece is a waste of time. Hard hammering causes the work piece to bounce off of the parallels. If you have to hammer I have found that lightly tapping a small block of phenolic (which is sitting on your work piece) with a larger piece of solid copper is the most efficient method I have found to date. Use short sharp hits but do not let the hammer or copper block rest on the piece between impacts. A vibration will ensue and once again lift the piece off of the parallels.

Tip. If one side of the work piece sits up off the parallels and you can't seem to knock it down. Tear or cut a small strip of regular paper about 3/8 wide by 6 inches long. Place the strip horizontally between the work piece and the vise jaw on the opposite the side of where the lifting occurs. You only want the paper strip inserted 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch. As above lightley tap your piece down. The paper acts as a fulcrum, the work piece tips as the vise is tightened.

Enjoy!

[gmann109]

Learning to machine without experienced guidance is like trying to master a computer by oneself.

The difference here are the dangers involved using power machinery and sharp tools.

It would be wonderful if machine tool classes would become parts of school curriculum as they once were.

Pretty much like being told to touch the water with your toe before jumping in head first.

Jose, I couldn't agree with you more about classes. When I was working in Workers compensation I was involved in training on machine safety and often took my beginning safety workers to schools and industrial shops for demonstrations relating to their work of inspecting for OSHA rules and regulations. That's been some 20 years ago now and many of those shops and classes are no longer operating as you say.

I wanted to take machine tool classes in woodworking and metal working when I was in high school but my mother was adamant and woudn't permit it. Since she was paying the bills at the time, I took all academic classses.

Since that time, I've more than made up for it. Now, with the advent of the internet and a free exchange of ideas such as provided by this site and others, one can absorb a great deal of knowledge in a short period of time.

I've been blessed since my best friend of some 20 years is a professional machinist who does many different types of job lots both in CNC and manually. He has some 30 years of experience and has gone out of his way to help me out, not with material so much, although I do get some of his hand-me-downs, but mainly with good sound advice as to how to approach a certain type of work or material. Happily, we both live in a rural area and his shop is only two miles away. He helped me find my new to me Webb Mill in April.

He was a journeyman welder and machinist on a military base for many years until the base was closed and then went on his own. He took all of the training and experience with him and he's been more than willing to share it.

I also took a one year welding class at local community college about 15 years ago and learned TIG and MIG welding. I was already proificient in Oxygen-Acetylene welding and cutting and Stick (SMAW) welding.

If a beginning HSM person can possibly hook up either with some classes or find a friend who is knowledgable like I have, it would go a long way to improving one's abilities.

It's really unfortunate how badly shcool budgets have been cut lately as well. Usually the shop classes get cut first in favor of the academics which are legally required. The elective shop classes are really important too, and should be maintained.

I used to have to fit my hobby in with my work but since I was sick and then retired a year ago, I'm more than making up for lost time. I don't do much other than sleep, eat and work on my tools. It doesn't get any better than this! I do everything I can to pick up good solid knowledge here and there and incorporate it into my bag of tricks. I also share with others whenever I can.

I also picked up my new Kurt vise today. It was due to be delivered by truck tomorrow but I went to the truck depot early this morning and picked it up. Besides being incredibly heavy, it's just a work of art!

You have some great suggestions. Thanks!

[mechanicalmagic]

[RANT ON]
PARDON ME, BUT:

I'm getting rather sick and tired of this board discussing folks unsupported opinions.

Machinists of old did good work, but I'm sure there were slackers, same as today.
Some of today's "machinists" do nothing but replace stock, but it comes out within tenths, thanks to CNC.

What the He!! difference does it make to this board? We are not machinists in 1900, and we want to do good work today, with the tools available. Some old American Iron, some ChiCom.

Can we PLEASE get back on topic?

Dave J.

[Harold_V]

[RANT ON]
PARDON ME, BUT:

I'm getting rather sick and tired of this board discussing folks unsupported opinions.

Machinists of old did good work, but I'm sure there were slackers, same as today.
Some of today's "machinists" do nothing but replace stock, but it comes out within tenths, thanks to CNC.

What the He!! difference does it make to this board? We are not machinists in 1900, and we want to do good work today, with the tools available. Some old American Iron, some ChiCom.

Can we PLEASE get back on topic?

Dave J.

Dave,
To honor your timely comments, I will move the bulk of the posts that do not pertain to the subject matter. They will be found in the Junk Drawer under a thread titled What does it take?

Those that have an interest can carry on their converstations there.

Harold

[BryceGTX]

Getting back on topic, here is a picture that describe one of the problems relavent to this topic. This shows the problem of canting from the moveable jaw.