The Home Machinist!

At the risk of sounding immodest, I'm starting to get the hang of this machining thing. And along the way, I have made some replacement parts as a favour for a friend or two. Now word is getting out and I've been approached by somewhat more removed acquaintances. Now, it's not that I mind so much (provided I have the time) but I'm doing this as a hobby, not a business. Heck, it's not even a hobby itself so much as a tool for the other hobbies. But I digress. The most recent request will require several hours and a couple of setups.

I have some mixed feelings about this. For one thing, I should probably be charging something for the service so that at the very least I am not out of pocket. It might even be nice to have a hobby pay something of it's own way for once. Another thought is that there are those who do this for a living, and if someone is willing to pay, then figuratively, I'm taking bread out of a real machinist's mouth.

I am a terrible estimator of time requirements when it comes to machining -- If I think I should be able to do something in a couple of hours after supper it'll be after midnight before I wander back into the house (time flies when you're having fun?). So I can't even tell them "Yeah, I can do it but it will cost you $xxx" based on how long it will take. Plus of course, a real shop would have something built in to the pricing to cover tool wear, electricity, cutting oil, etc. etc. etc.

So I'm curious about 2 things:

First, how do other hobbyists handle these sorts of requests? Do you charge anything for your efforts or just the materials, or direct them to the nearest professional?

Second, how do the professionals feel about dilettantes in the field? Do you get many people wandering in off the street saying "can you make me one of these?" Are the hobbyists (that so many of you freely advise on this forum) cutting into your action? Or is your custom pretty well all industrial/commercial in nature?

Tourch,

This is just my .02 worth but I run into the same issue from time to time.

Since I am doing this only as a hobby I don't expect to ever make any money at it. For one thing, I'm to slow! However, there are people that I will make parts for and ever situation is different.

So here are my rules:

1. Are they just trying to avoid paying a professional shop a fair price?

2. Is it a friend, neighbor or some referal?

3. Can I do the part and will I enjoy it or will it be a frustration?

4. What are my real cost and what are my hidden cost to do this "Favor"?

5. Is this a person who has a real emergency and my help will make a big differance. This one I will do for free most of the time!

So 5 simple rules and the answers will impact if I do the part and how much I might charge. I have a real knack for spotting free loaders who could pay but don't want too. (Cheap Skates)


Keeping in mind that anything I do will take me longer than a proffesional shop, may require some additional tooling and could be beyond the capacity of my machines so therfore I don't expect to charge Big shop rates.

But then your time and expertise is worth something. It is up to you to decide what that something is and how to keep it real.

Dave C.

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I learn something new every day! Problems is I forget two.

I build guitar amps for friends. My terms are:

1. You pay for everything.

2. You pay for replacements for everything I break or set on fire or lose.

3. You pay someone to fix it if I can't make it work.

4. You pay to fix anything that goes wrong later.

I think that's fair. I just completed a clone that would cost $1750 from Marshall. I think my friend has $500-$600 in it, and it's much better than the Chinese crap you get at Guitar Center. I don't know what the new Marshalls have in them, but I'll bet it's Chinese PCBs and surface-mount garbage you can't repair.

Speaking of Guitar Center, some kid who works there wanted me to fix his amp. I didn't do it, but if I had, I would have given him a cheap flat rate, plus a bill for parts. I can't charge someone by the hour, when it might take me three times as long as a pro.

I have a couple more friends I'm willing to build free amps for (one each), but after that, everyone pays for labor.

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People who say, "Google is your friend" need to talk to a Chinese dissident.

Another way you can deal with situations like this is via barter -- can the person making the request do something for you in exchange?

Ed

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Ed

Atlas 618 lathe
US-Burke Millrite MVI mill
Files, snips and cold chisels

Good sound thoughts in all these replies. I generally don't charge nothing not even material. I don't take jobs that I don't want to do or that require so much material I'd have to charge. For me to take a job I have to have all the stuff left over from earlier or the person asking has to deliver the material. If I screw up they may be buying more material. After it is all finished and they ask "what do I owe you" It's usually nothing but sometimes on a larger job I ask for enough money to fill some holes in the drill indexes or taps etc. The nice thing about having them order the material is you can usually piggyback some stock you need for your next project with their order. Sometimes they won't even take your money either, besides if they don't want it bad enough to do the ordering I don't want to make it for them. That's what the pros are for. Get a quote, pay and pickup with no effort.

I'm busy making tooling so my outlook may change when that gets less critical.

Steve

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http://www.totallyscrewedmachineshop.com

If it's a friend, someone who I enjoy spending an evening or two with, I'll usually tell them "Meet me at the shop and we'll do it together. Bring beer"
My shop is pretty remote, so most of my friends have to give up an hour each way just to get there. Takes some commitment
I've done this several times, and enjoyed it each time. Kinda fun showing your friends what machining is about. Most find it fascinating.

There are some jobs that are too small or too difficult for a pro shop to make money on. If such a job is interesting, I may do it for a nominal fee.

One way I would answer a request from a non-friend, particularly some something commercial: "Get a couple written quotes from a professional machine shop, and if I accept it I'll do it for half the lowest labor quote plus materials and consumables."

Little jobs for friends own use free,slighly bigger jobs lunch/dinner. Jobs for friends that will be charged to their customer $25-30 a hour. Others $25-30 hour. I mostly do the odd jobs that most shops won't touch or want a big $$ to do for a simple job. Material they bring or I charge for unless a very small piece. After all I'm the guy that had enough smarts to buy the tools and learn to use them.

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www.chaski.com

Looks like I didn't invent this.

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People who say, "Google is your friend" need to talk to a Chinese dissident.

I had a simaler situation. had a younger guy who was always having me help with his cars, repair or rebuilding all the time. heavy wrenching! not changing light bulbs or spark plugs. rebuilding motors or body work never charged him a dime. he was a carpenter. needed some help with some woodworking around my place. if i remember right fixing the back porch. he came over to help. the crappiest carpentry work I have ever seen. would of been better of with out him. he then demands that I pay him an hourly rate!! I remind him all the help I have given him over the years. he tells me his time is worth more than mine,,,,,, well a year or so latter he finally figured out he was not cutting it as a carpenter and decided to go to work for someone else. I was amazed he was using me for a Job Reference!!!!!!! I made dang sure he never got hired anywhere he used my name. paybacks are a bitch!

Forward, My Electrician always wants goodies for his guns. he competition shoots long range 50's. he comes over works beside me watching and asking a ton of questions. I turned around and he jumped in and was machining his own parts! he is having a blast! last few times I brought in new Equipment, he was there waiting to do the instalation free so he could keep getting more goodies!

I'm kind of surprised that nobody's mentioned LIABILITY. Like "that part you made for me broke and the .... took off my finger" liability. How do people deal with that ? (Hopefully by avoiding it, but how?)

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Pete in NJ

Pete H.

Not sure you can avoid it totally. Last night on the news I heard a Father sued the city because his son rode his bike off into a drainage ditch and broke some bones.

It seems these days everything is someones elses fault! What ever happended to personal responsibility?

As far as product liability issues....Big can of worms so I don't make parts for things that have to do with life safety, structural members, and so one.

Oh yeah, that is why they have Engineers put stamps on designs. Now they are covered by their errors and omissions insurance and liability insurance. Another reason they charge what they do for their advice. Gotta cover all the risk these days!

Dave C.

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I learn something new every day! Problems is I forget two.

I tend to do more woodworking, electrical and electronic stuff. The people I do work for buy the materials (unless it's something real small I can find in
my scrap pile). If it's something that requires a tool that I don't have like a router bit I let them buy it. I won't do the job unless they stay around,
watch help and learn. I don't charge. I tend to do small jobs that most professionals couldn't be bothered with. If it's not fun I don't do it. There are
some people that because of previous jobs I will not do work for again. Beers are for later after the power tools are put away.