????---3D TASTER

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Richard_W
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????---3D TASTER

Post by Richard_W » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:02 pm

At work a guy asked me how to build a 3D TASTER. I had never heard of one! But upon doing a little searching about them, now I know what it is. But have no idea of how it works. Are there any plans out there about how they are made?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5vKq8_nKhc



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttOprazgnNI




Richard W.

hammermill
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Re: ????---3D TASTER

Post by hammermill » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:55 pm

Look at a few of the other video,s looks a lot like a coaxial indicator. But I may be wrong

The video by haimer may help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mMEvOKUIos

soory about not being able to post these intructions, seems to be a weekspot in the tablet/android software ken
.
Last edited by hammermill on Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Richard_W
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Re: ????---3D TASTER

Post by Richard_W » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:58 pm

hammermill wrote:Look at a few of the other video,s looks a lot like a coaxial indicator. But I may be wrong.
You can touch off in any direction. X, Y & Z Nothing like a coaxial and you don't rotate the spindle. Would seem to be something a CNC would have more use for?

hammermill
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Re: ????---3D TASTER

Post by hammermill » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:29 pm

In a couple of videos they make a big deal out of breaking off tips without damaging the instrument

The message i got was crashes are not uncommon in Inc.

Beyond that interesting indeed

here is a vid on instruction on using it with a torchment mill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkYpKWbA2P0

pete
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Re: ????---3D TASTER

Post by pete » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:28 pm

Richard, or for anyone else.
I bought the Haimer digital 3-D Taster (I believe "Taster" is German for tester) after I saw it for the first time on the Glacern machine tool site. They do need a good quality and 100% dedicated tool holder to properly set them up to an initial zero runout condition at the probe tip. I'm using a Bison endmill holder for mine. And since every spindle will have a certain degree of runout no matter how good it is, and the same for your tool holder, the unit is accurate enough that your tool holder should be indexed so it's inserted into your spindle taper at the same position each time to maintain your zero settings. That's about the only useful function I've ever found for that stupid little indexing set screw in an R8 taper. And you also need at least a good accurate DTI capable of checking the probe tip runout so you can center the tip. I haven't rechecked it since, but after buying mine I read the information Long Island Dial Indicator Repair has for at least the Haimer built units. At that time and as far as they knew, there were no repair parts or factory authorized repair companies anywhere in North America or anywhere else in the world other than Germany. So if you ever drop or crash one badly, it's going to need a trip back to the factory.

There is a patent drawing that shows the internal workings for the Haimer design, but I've lost the address for exactly where you can find it. Google patents might turn it up? One of the hobby machinist sites Mad Modder, HMEM etc had a build of one sometime in the last 2-4 years. I recall he had huge problems getting any repeatable accuracy from his, and it took months and multiple attempts to get to that stage. They are far more complicated internally that it first seems. And proper hardening, tempering, and very precise part grinding needs to be done to end up with a tool that will do the job and can be depended on. Again and in my opinion there also only one part of a "system" you need to have to obtain the very best out of them. You need a tight machine in good condition, and I'm certainly not trying to insult anyone here, but a cheap Chinese mini mill just isn't going to be good enough for one example. And you either need a very good machine with very good dials, feedscrews, and nut's. Or have a very good DRO. Those cheap digital bar scales aren't going to do it either. And if there's any corrections needed in the travels of your mill table, then you need to map those out so offset corrections can be used. One example would be knowing just how far out your knees Z axis is in both X and Y as it gets moved up and down. I seem to recall Glen Wegman? posted an exceptionally clever way to check that on this forum quite awhile ago.

Probably the Z axis capability on these "Tasters" for tool setting to the work piece is the most usable on good quality CNC equipment. For myself I don't see a real use on a manual mill with just the usual R8 taper and no quick change tooling system on it (yet). But the very fast X,Y zeroing to an amazing tolerance level in a home shop make them well worth it in my opinion. One other method is you can preset your DRO or dials with them by zeroing on your vise's fixed jaw and maybe a work stop while doing multiple parts. But I doubt there worth it if your accuracy needs are pretty low. And like almost anything else mill related, they are just a tool that can help you work better, faster, easier. But there certainly not needed to do good work. I really like mine and wouldn't want to do without. Then again your thoughts and mileage may vary. But even with owning one of these I still use the old school trick of a cigarrette rolling paper and touching off on that and then moving over half the diameter of the endmill or rod I used when the work justifies it. That method should get you within .002" or less with some practice. Good quality edge finders that are properly maintained and not gummed up with old oil should get you under a thou.

I personally think you can cheat more than a bit and wring far more accuracy out of a good mill than even the manufacturer's are willing to say there machines are capable of if you know exactly where the inaccuracy's are in YOUR machine, and if your willing to spend some time learning where they are so you can then compensate for them. But let's face it, there not surface grinders. And just because your 3D Taster is properly set for a zero runout condition, your tooling may not cut or rotate on the exact same center line that the Haimer unit say's it should.Just like a DRO it get's you in the ball park range so your real close at the first measurement on a manual machine. Depending on your patience level, you could if needed combine them with a good DRO and use it as a probe to map out and reverse engineer parts like a poor man's CMM. But building a 3D Taster? I dunno, I'd guess it would depend on your experience and ability's along with exactly what equipment you had available. It's certainly not impossible. There's also some cheaper analog copies of the Hammer unit the Chinese are building, but I haven't seen anyone that bought one posting much good about those. So FWIW, now you and everyone else reading this now knows every single thing I know about them. And that's not much.

Pete

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Bill Shields
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Re: ????---3D TASTER

Post by Bill Shields » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:41 am

look up RENISHAW PROBE if you want to see how these things are used commercially.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

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Bruce_Mowbray
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Re: ????---3D TASTER

Post by Bruce_Mowbray » Fri May 02, 2014 12:18 pm

I was at a manufacturing show in Philly not too long ago and the big thing was 3-D scanners and Printers. Someone had the bright idea and scanning a slice of pizza with all of the toppings. The result was a perfect copy, color and all, of the pizza slice. Someone then asked if the company has invented a 3-D taster yet. The reply was no. But they are working on injecting flavors and scents into the plastics used for the printing process.

A word to the wise. Question the reality of everything you eat!!
Bruce Mowbray
Springville & Southern RR
TMB Manufacturing & Locomotive Works

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Bill Shields
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Re: ????---3D TASTER

Post by Bill Shields » Fri May 02, 2014 12:41 pm

You should see the 'plastic food' outside Japanese restaurants....all come from scans and recently 3D printers...
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

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