Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

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choprboy
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Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by choprboy »

What do people prefer for insert threading tool holders? I have been looking for something other than little hand-ground HSS bars now that I have stepped up from a 6"/lantern post lathe. There are so many options out there and yet it seems like almost nothing uses the same inserts/parts for internal/external/left/right threading. Seems like you really need to have at least 6 to 8 different bars at $100-200/ea, plus different inserts for each, if you want to be able to tackle a range of common threading on a 13" class lathe. Additionally, most of the stuff I have seen has a 1"+ shank. My quick change holds 5/8" shanks (3/4" if I take a few tens out of the groove), and there is not enough meat to mill it out to take a 1" shank.

Is there something out there that is affordable, uses a common insert bit, and/or is repositionable for different threading options? I almost pulled the trigger on one from Enco yesterday (missed the sale...), but only one style was available and the others were discontinued...
Russ Hanscom
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by Russ Hanscom »

From the bottom, since the larger shank tool holders are frequently less expensive, I buy them and mill the shank down to 3/4 or 5/8" They cut fine with a carbide end mill.

As to your first question, I have a large assortment. Most of the threading does get done with ground HSS tools; depending on the thread size, I have 1/4. 3/8, and 1/2" square ones.

I have some carbide threading inserts, both regular triangle and full profile inserts, but they get used mainly for really hard stuff.

I regularly do up to 4 pitch threads with HSS.
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Dave_C
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by Dave_C »

Well any tool you buy for external thread cutting most likely will not make an internal thread. I do however have an internal threading bar that use the same insert as my external threading tool. Both can do right or left threads! Both came from Grizzly.com believe it or not but it is one of their better grades of tooling.

These holders use the expensive three tipped inserts (not triangle inserts) from Carmex. They make great threads but I am running the speed much higher than a manual lathe would run.

If you are making manual passes at less than 100 RPM I would stay with HSS! Slow RPM with carbide can break tips off. Carbide likes higher speeds so it can make clean shearing of the material. I've busted inserts from turning them too slow.

My two cents worth,

Dave C.
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choprboy
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by choprboy »

I think I found it, with the 16ER/16IR inserts? Yeah, that is more or less what I was looking for. 4 bars (left/right internal/external) and 2 inserts, uses the same insert for internal RH threading as external LH threading. Looks like Grizzly only sells the inserts in 10 packs, still a lot to buy upfront to see if it works well on my lathe but the holders are cheap and maybe I can find single inserts around somewhere locally to test with.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by SteveHGraham »

You might want to check out Mesa Tool.

If you start getting into this, people will tell you that you have to have a whole bunch of different inserts, because it's not really right to cut different size threads with the same insert. I warn you in advance so you will be ready for the headache.

Another option: making threading tools out of drill rod on your lathe. Very fast, and they do work. You have to harden them, though.
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choprboy
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by choprboy »

What do you mean by "out of drill rod on your lathe"? Like tangential tooling or something else? I have some drill rod and an oven to experiment with heat treat, just haven't had a chance to really do much yet.
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BadDog
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by BadDog »

As mentioned, I often buy larger shank insert holders and mill them to fit. I used 1" tool holders on my old 1/2" AXA blocks, and I have 1" to 1.5" holders on my 3/4" CXA blocks. Very little milling is required, and I leave it full height off the end of the block (looks like an inverted "L" in cross section) to provide maximum rigidity. And I get top names, usually Kennametal because I really like their insert clamp and supporting anvil setup, and they are readily available and cheap for use with the main stream common/cheap/flexible inserts. I would say stay FAR away from the cheap sets offered everywhere you look. I've never heard anything but bad about them from folks who have anything experience with anything remotely capable to compare against. One quick flag that puts me off immediately is vague or missing standard insert information, no supporting anvil, and nothing more than a screw holding the insert in place. Good holders like the Kennametals I prefer have a robust carbide anvil to support the insert, an eccentric screw-thing to hold the insert firmly against the wall, and a clamp over the top to hold the insert down on the anvil. With smaller boring bars you are often left with room for nothing but a screw, but other than that, no way...

One of those cut down 1" holders is a Kennametal Top-Notch holder, which I really like well above anything else I've ever tried for OD threading. Amazingly robust, and a wide range of groovers and threading inserts are available, though not cheap. ID threading is also supported, but limited due to bulk getting in the way. I have a small TN boring bar for ID grooving/threading, but many times it just won't fit. I still find myself mostly using HSS for ID threading when it's too big for the taps I have on hand. And particularly for aluminum and plastics (etc), I also generally use HSS bits. Then there are the full profile threading inserts. A bit like a section of tap used as an insert where the entire form including peak and valley are provided by the insert. You have to have the right insert for the pitch you want, but guarantees full correct thread form unlike the typical singe point "V" threading tools. And I've seen inserts for die heads used as a thread cutting tool, usually by taking a damaged one and grinding off all but a few of the best remaining points, and I've seen a broken tap visit the grinder to become a full profile threading tool.

Lots of options. But most often, it's either my Top-Notch or ground HSS, and using thread wires when it matters...
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SteveM
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by SteveM »

I got one of these, shop made by a machinst, but using an Aloris blade:

Image

It's adjustable for the helix angle.

Haven't used it yet. The only single-point threads I've done have been internal.

Steve
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by SteveHGraham »

choprboy wrote:What do you mean by "out of drill rod on your lathe"? Like tangential tooling or something else? I have some drill rod and an oven to experiment with heat treat, just haven't had a chance to really do much yet.
I found a link to a site that explains it. It's very simple.

I don't know anything about using ovens. I wrapped the drill rod in wire to hold it, dipped it in alcohol, dipped the whole works in boric acid, and used a plumber's torch to heat it.

Just be careful to see to it that it has enough relief to clear the work.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/ ... rod.20239/
Last edited by SteveHGraham on Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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choprboy
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by choprboy »

It's an electric oven/kiln/furnace... It gets hot enough for melting copper, more than enough to heat treat:
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... 14&t=91059

OK, just a piece of drill rod shaped to a tool point and hardened. Ive done basically the same with square HSS tool steel before, ground out for side and bottom relief. Just takes a long time to grind while keeping temps down. A/O/W steel should be a fair bit quicker to mill/shape, then harden and finish grind.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Choosing a threading tool holder/options?

Post by SteveHGraham »

The nice thing about drill rod is that you just make 3 quick cuts with the lathe, and you get a perfect 60-degree shape to grind into a tool. It has limitations, but for short threads, it works fine.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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