Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

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Glenn Brooks
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Ahahaha, Pictures forthcoming, although I am a bit embarrassed to say it is sitting on the floor in my shop at the moment. Not very photogenic. As I have yet absolutely no room to put it. Yep, it may indeed be a 1 3/8" spindle. Didn't think about that, but that would explain the 10 TPI thread that I measured. Yet another set of tooling to keep track of. Maybe should start color coding by size...

Edit: still no photos- been busy surveying my backyard railroad ROW in the nice weather. But did scan the original bill of sale and the original inspection card! Unbelievable these have survived this long. Also have the three month $50payment cards, dated 1925, with a whopping .37cents interest each month. A buck went a lot further those days than now...
Bill of Sale
Bill of Sale
South Bend shop inspection card
South Bend shop inspection card
Catalog page -apparently did not come with taper attachment
Catalog page -apparently did not come with taper attachment
Last edited by Glenn Brooks on Tue May 03, 2016 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
pete
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by pete »

Not sure exactly why Grizzly isn't a bit more informative about what goes into building the new South Bends. Grizzly's owner is also a user of a lot of his company's products and belongs to a lot of forums like this. He's also more than smart enough because of that not to inflate the price just because of that South Bend name. Doing so without a very good reason would kill his attempt to keep the South Bend name going. There hasn't been much hands on user content on the forums that I've seen so far. But some of what I've been able to gather is that there using much better bearings, electrical controls, motors, and even built in VFD's on some of them. Grizzly apparently has some of there own people running checks for quality there. I'm not someone who thinks every single thing coming out of China / Taiwan is inferior to what was once built here. China at least didn't get to be a nuclear capable country along with there growing space program using Harbor Freight quality tooling. They can and do build anything you want that would be the equal quality to it being built in any other country. The prices would be about the same but still have that "Made in China" taint to it. Taiwan despite it's reputation for machine tools being of quite good quality is also equally capable of building garbage the same as any other country can. It all boils down to that build price. Quality and accuracy doesn't come cheap no matter what your work force is being paid.

My best guess is that a lot of what gets included in the much higher selling price for the South Bends is what you can't see. As someone else mentioned the castings are probably hand selected, are they using much higher quality of cast iron to pour those castings even though the same patterns are being used? The machining and surface grinding would have to meet much tighter specifications. A proper comparison would have to be a look at each lathes test certificate as well between the Grizzly and SB lathes. The last lathe I bought was a 11" x 27" made in Nanjing China and it's quality is much improved over what you usually see for a Chinese lathe under 12" swing. Had Grizzly been selling there new 10" x 30" heavy 10 lathe at the time I was buying that's what I would have bought instead even though it's over twice the price. I'm not sure about today, but it wasn't very long ago that China was the largest customer by far for top quality Japanese and European build CNC equipment. All that's being used now to slowly upgrade there quality on a lot of products. I've also read that some of there best quality machine tools are hardly ever seen outside China simply because people aren't willing to pay what that top quality costs. Not when it's got that made in China badge. If the accuracy and quality was exactly the same just how many company's would be willing to pay the same for even Taiwan built machines tools instead of Japanese, Swiss or German made?
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GlennW
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by GlennW »

pete wrote: He's also more than smart enough because of that not to inflate the price just because of that South Bend name.
Why else would he have bought the name when he is already in the business of selling lathes??
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!
pete
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by pete »

Not sure just how accurate my information is Glenn but from the bits and pieces I've read he wanted to bring back the South Bend name as well as start offering a sort of premium brand of machine tools. Despite both being owned by the same person South Bend is a distinct and separate company from Grizzly even though there being sold at the Grizzly locations.
DFWKen
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by DFWKen »

Old thread, but I didn't want to start a new South Bend "Heavy" thread just for my comments.
I am soon to be the owner of a new South Bend Heavy 13 (13 x 30). It will replace my Chinese-made 12 x 36 Grizzly which I've owned for at least 15 years and still works well. But I succumbed to the lust when Grizzly put the Heavy 13 on sale. I'm truly excited about receiving it. It should be here in 4 to 6 weeks. It weighs over 2,000 pounds. The challenge will be to get it off the pallet and onto the floor of my home workshop. I may employ an engine hoist and straps; using the manual's instructions regarding lifting and protecting the lead screws. Soon, I'll have my 12 x 36 for sale.
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Finally got some pics of my SB 9". The spindle is so smooth the chuck spins 2-3times with a flick of the wrist. Can't believe it...

Also, what make is this 3Jaw chuck? I've never seen one like this. Apparently the jaws close like a spiral three jaw, but Each jaw can be adjusted separately to center the work.

Finish on the lathe is original, so must be Japanning.

I need to decide how to mount a motor and countershaft or drive line. Have some parts for both...
IMG_1037.JPG
IMG_1032.JPG
IMG_1028.JPG
Not dirt or rust on the Ways, scrapings from the factory... amazing!
IMG_1034.JPG
Scraping still visible on the ways.
IMG_1031.JPG
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
spro
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by spro »

The chuck is probably D.E. Whiton Machine Co. New London, Conn.
spro
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by spro »

Glenn B. Your S.B. 9" does look museum quality. Your sales ticket mentions 4" 3- Jaw Universal Chuck and I think that would be the Whiton. I got a 9 1/4" version of this chuck with my 1933 S.B. 11" lathe. That lathe is also the long bed and got really wore out around WWII and afterwards. It's amazing yours escaped all that.
It will be something to appreciate one of these ( R series, I think) when it is still tight and not all wore out. Many years ago these machines were scrap yet evidence of their works remain. It became after much work, they were reduced to scrap with every pinion, every gear and bed worn out. It is something, to be able to reach back and see it as it was.
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Thanks Spro, for the info on the chuck. I haven't found any markings on it yet. Yes, amazing and interesting to see machinery this old and with almost no wear. Literally a 'barn find' that sat on Craigslist for several weeks before I went to look at it. In fact I passed it over several times, then looking at the pics again, thought I saw scraping on the bed. Told myself - couldn't be... but went to look anyway and bought it up once I knocked off a bunch of sawdust and oil.

I think I will try to take some sharper photos. The black,paint makes it hard to capture clear detail with an old iPhone.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
spro
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: mid atlantic

Re: Grizzly and South Bend Lathes

Post by spro »

Your pictures were good enough for me to see certain things. You really did get that "find". The 11" of the same time period has the same style follower and steady rests. The V ways were shot on my 11" at about what we see. There were other markings during the 70-80 years. There were marks from the chuck hitting the bed on removal. Marks of many tools and thinning of the V's. Yours is spectacular in comparison. Yours still has the original cast covers over the bull gear and side gearing.
Lots to think about now. Proper clean and proper lube enough to run it. I don't think it was supposed to be a major project in itself but it is there. Major guys can suggest proper break in lube to the best. Some things need to be taken apart for inspection. If that bull gear cover is off, we can see the great teeth as they were.
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