Newby on Board

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

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Rainer
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:24 pm
Location: Germany, Berlin

Newby on Board

Post by Rainer » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:00 pm

Hello from Germany,

since some Days i own a MetalLathe but dont Know,
who has build it.

Maybe a Champion Blower & Forge?
The Color ist not original, also the Motor and the Belt

Can you help?

Thanks and Regards

Rainer
Lathe_1.jpg
Lathe_2.jpg
Lathe_3.jpg
Lathe_4.jpg
Lathe_5.jpg

Harold_V
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Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Newby on Board

Post by Harold_V » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:07 pm

Hello Rainer!
I'm no help with the identity of your lathe, but I'd like to welcome you to the board.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

spro
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Location: mid atlantic

Re: Newby on Board

Post by spro » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:20 pm

Welcome, Rainer! Your lathe looks similar to a Dalton but better.

spro
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Re: Newby on Board

Post by spro » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:27 pm

I expanded the picture. It appears a fine feed screw thread at the left of the lead screw. There is more to say about this lathe.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Newby on Board

Post by SteveHGraham » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:51 pm

Welcome. Have you checked lathes.co.uk? They have photos of a Champion lathe that looks very much like yours.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/blowerforge/page4.html
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

Rainer
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:24 pm
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Newby on Board

Post by Rainer » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:26 am

Thanks for your friendly Welcome and
thanks for your quick Response

@SteveHGraham,
i spend a lot of Time to visit thise Web-Site.
Thats, why i thought, it could be a Champions Blower Forge.
Spro has the Tip, it could be a Dalton.

@Spro,
it looks, as it could be a Dalton Lot 2 ( 1914 ), but there are some Differences to my.
You wrote:
"There is more to say about this Lathe"....
Can you ...or have I... ?

Regards
Rainer

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1880
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Newby on Board

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:49 am

Very nicely preserved lathe for sure. My first thought is you have a Dalton. But now I don't think so. Maybe a Champion Forge similar to one shown on Tony's UK lathe site.

The lower half of your tail stock looks to small to a Dalton. Also the tail stock end of the lead screw on Dalton lathes is attached directly to the bed of the ways with two machine screws. Yours looks like a post supports the end of the lead screw. Also early Daltons had their trade name "Dalton" cast on the front of the apron. Latter Lots 5, and 6 had the Dalton name cast on the middle of the bed, end of the headstock gear cover, and on the feet. Aprons were both rounded and square edges, depending on Lot.

He is my Dalton. Lots of similarities, but not exactly the same
IMG_1294.JPG
IMG_1207.JPG
So, Here is a way to know, maybe. Look on the vertical end of the bed, at the tailstock end. Daltons had a 'lot' number and serial number hand stamped on the end of the casting. If yours is a Dalton, it might be a lot 5, or 6 and have a three or four digit serial number. (Dalton made 7 and 9" lathes from 1913 through 1929 or 1930. Hundreds to thousands were sent to Europe during WW1.)

For sure, let us know what you find out. And welcome to the forum!

Regards
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

Rainer
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:24 pm
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Newby on Board

Post by Rainer » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:18 am

Hi Glenn,

thanks for your description and your Ideas!

Thats, why, maybe, it could be a Dalton:
From http://www.lathes.co.uk/dalton/page2.html
Dalton_Lot2.jpg
and my one
Lathe_1.jpg
I need to look, if i can find any Numbers on my Lathe.

Regards,

Rainer

spro
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Re: Newby on Board

Post by spro » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:32 am

Thanks to Glenn B. you have more information about your lathe. Some things to note: Champion Blower & Forge didn't make a lathe smaller than 9" swing (UK board) . We can estimate the swing but both Glenn and I own Dalton Six (actually 7") The "Swing" is twice the distance from centerline to bed surface but that was measured differently over time. Sometimes is was the useable distance above the saddle because the saddle of the carriage holds the tooling.
I believe your lathe has been modified and stylized over time or is perhaps the style copied by other manufacturers. If it is 7" swing range, look at those Vee ways. The Dalton's are huge for that size lathe and Glenn's pics show the relative difference. Then look at the change gears' retention, with a clip. Champion didn't do that, Yours and Dalton did that. So you may need to scrape a little paint to find the #s where Glenn suggested. I would check mine but it is far away now.
This is interesting discovery either way. Lots of things happen over 90 years. Thanks for introducing the topic and there is more.

Glenn Brooks
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Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Newby on Board

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:11 pm

Wow, lot 2 are rare! Yes, now I am indeed a believer. May indeed be a Dalton. Unusual that the apron does not have "Dalton Six" cast into the surface. Who knows what can happen over time!!!

I've heard two stories about the name "Dalton Six": one is the lathe has six different functions it can perform with attachments. The other is the lathe has six speeds...

Maybe this will help looking at known features on the end of the headstock.
IMG_1317.JPG
IMG_1318.JPG
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

spro
Posts: 7783
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: mid atlantic

Re: Newby on Board

Post by spro » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:11 am

Not every lathe has that Tee slot milled behind the bed. The Six in One depended upon that for other things I haven't seen. One attachment was the taper fixture.

Rainer
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:24 pm
Location: Germany, Berlin

Re: Newby on Board

Post by Rainer » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:47 pm

Hi again,

Now I have to keep a Big Smile in my Face for a Long Time.
it is a Dalton, Lot 2, NO 477.

I Made a Picture with my Smartphone, in the Moment my Tablet doesn't Likes me.
20170224_201053.jpg
The Machine is lightly repaired in the Past
and needs some more, but it is a Dalton Lot 2.

So I need some Help in the Future.

For the Moment many thanks for your Understanding and your Ideas.

Are there any more Information about the Lot 2- Dalton?

Regards

Rainer

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