Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

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spro
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by spro » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:43 pm

I have to break my fast, in order to agree with you. There are outside surfaces, which covered with paint, are never seen. You can READ the heavy hand held grinders and the work they did to smooth the castings. I have been astounded by the grinding imprints and the very same gullets attacked the same ways. I'm not saying strip all the paint off. Only that there was evidence of experience of the outside grinding. Each machine was unique by this. During the construction before the painting, some were absolute masters at grinding freehand to shape the rough castings.
I will always remember the reason for applying a thin coat of paint. You can still see the evidence of shape grinding and envision them twisting a large wheel into a corner And continue that attitude around a segment.

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BadDog
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by BadDog » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:03 pm

Yeah, I saw a Bridgeport being "refinished" and chemically stripped. Some of it looked more like they took a free hand cold saw to it rather than a grinder. Must have been some powerful beasts of grinders. Must have taken 2 gallons of bondo to make it look smooth again, but in the end it look better than new. Not for me. Thankfully the mill I'm currently trying to put back together still actually looks pretty nice, though I'm understanding more and more that whoever undertook rebuilding that head really shouldn't be allowed to work on a small brigs flathead lawnmower, much less a mill head. But at least he bought good parts even if he did crack/break a few cast pieces trying to complete the task.
Russ
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spro
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by spro » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:29 pm

Well Russ. All I can say is about earlier stuff and appreciate what I saw. The castings were beautiful after grinding and that's all for that.
Again correct about the head. Whole different deal. They come apart so easy.

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BadDog
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by BadDog » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:26 am

Sometimes in spite of my efforts to be descriptive, my words do not come off as intended, and I didn't mean to say that it was poorly done. The flashing and such from the casting process was well sculpted and not to be faulted by me. But it wasn't ground relatively smooth as I have done on various things with my assorted grinders, but rather very vigorously and aggressively leaving marks like claws. They were not messing around, which I would suppose is to be expected in such production. The shape and sculpting was nothing to complain about at all, but those grind marks were beyond anything I could duplicate even with my (to me) beast of a 9" grinder (metal cased heavy monster from times past). Mine is a polisher by comparison. My impression is that using those it might have been a bit like some silhouette artsy pieces I did for my daughter out of 16 ga free hand with a plasma cutter. There would be no room for mistakes, because a momentary mistake means material gone that won't readily be repaired, and more work for the finishers too. And there is a LOT of highly skilled work from raw casting to the smooth gracefully shaped machines we are used to. Even my little Pratt Whitney shows minor defects in the non-critical casting areas, and they were at the time among the very premium machine manufacturers. But those very coarse grind marks combined with pits and some minor voids, I saw pic of it in process and it was smeared with bondo like cake icing where every inch of surface needed filling (grinder, void, porous, etc), then sanded, rinse, repeat. And my memory for details like that is not great, but I want to say it was the main base casting for an old round ram M head? I just tried to refresh that memory with some google searching, but no dice.
Russ
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spro
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by spro » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:12 am

I really do appreciate and read. We are among others who think and notice these things. I suppose voids and minor errors are to be expected and everything painted over. I wouldn't waste our time, even mentioning it but you have seen it also. That is enough for me...for that.

Downwindtracker2
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by Downwindtracker2 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Even the bondo job has levels of finish. If you wander through a Grizzly showroom, there is a difference between a Grizzly and a South Bend bondo job. FWIW, the green bear should get applauded for trying to keep South Bend brand as better quality. One only has to look what has become of other quality brands, like Ridgid, now house brand of the big store.
A man of foolish pursuits, '91 BusyBee DF1224g lathe,'01 Advance RF-45 mill/drill,'68 Delta Toolmaker surface grinder,Miller250 mig,'83 8" Baldor grinder, plus sawdustmakers

earlgo
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by earlgo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:44 pm

I tried to update this thread but it wouldn't take my pictures. My computer reduced them to 461 x 346 but this site says they are original size at 4608 x 3456 and won't post them. I used Microsoft Office 2010 and this has always worked before.
Is there an issue with my technique?
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

Harold_V
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by Harold_V » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:34 am

earlgo wrote: Is there an issue with my technique?
No, there isn't. It appears there's a bug in the software update. It has been reported by others. Right now I don't have an answer for you, but Mike is now aware of the problem. It will be addressed as quickly as possible. Please be patient, though. :-)
He'll also attempt to address the bug with the quote feature, which doesn't seem to do what it's supposed to do.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

earlgo
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by earlgo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:30 am

Ok, thanks for the info Harold.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

kroll
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by kroll » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:39 am

This is a fantastic subject and kinda fits me.Thank goodness our interaction is on the net,cause I would be embarrassed cause I am one that paint the lathe and I also paint the handles so that they don't rust.Painting the machines sets me back maybe a week or so but its time well spent in my books.Why not paint?The choice to paint or not to paint is kinda like these guys who does cars that decides to paint or not to paint,which if they choose not to paint they still put on a clear finish.It don't make the car run better but it does help make it look better,kinda like some men choose to wear a suit out to eat while I wear bluejeans.Please don't condemn me cause I paint a lathe or whatever,it helps me feel better I get better each time I use my spray gun.But when I do take a machine apart down to the last screw(which I do) I try my best to do it the best I can within my novice knowledge that limits me.But each time I do a machine I research the machine and watch those dang Utubes,ask questions on all the forums which has/is helps out alot.But I also don't have the instruments(knowledge) to get those headstocks perfectly lined up with the bed nor the tailstock.So there is a lot to learn from members,but I do understand that some with the knowledge may laugh at me and the ones that are novice may leave comment in my post "hey its looking good" When I done my first Atlas I use the word"Rebuild or Restore" and a member ask me if I am scraping the ways which I ask"Whats that"so I quickly learned not to use the word "rebuild" in my titles anymore.One good thing that I have learned from this post in the beginning is the more I learn that machine looks good but may not perform as well as it looks.I can only do what my pocket change allows me to do but with ya'll help in the past and present I am able to take each project up to the next level.Oh I use oil base paint from SW's,I don't use rattle cans
Guys on the side,I have hit my biggest challenge which is my 1964 Delta/Rockwell 11" lathe,lots of issues.Which will require me to try make few parts.I'm excited about that

earlgo
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by earlgo » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:09 am

Ok the pics seem to be working now.
Earlier in the year (2017) my friend came down to look at the issues I have been repairing on the Atlas/Craftsman and in doing so he commented about the backlash between the driving pulley and the spindle, and how it might be contributing to the chatter. I am finally getting around to this because this weekend the lawn does not need mowing, etc. etc.
Here is a picture of the parts:
Headstock parts list.jpg
Headstock parts
Parts #9, drive pulley, #13 bull gear keyed to spindle and #14, pin that holds them together.
Here is a picture of the pin notch in the drive pulley:
Backgear pin notch wear.JPG
Pulley pin notch wear
One can see how the material has been battered on one side if one looks closely.
Here is a picture of the backlash measurement setup:
Backlash measurement setup reduced.JPG
backlash measurement setup
The gear with the pin is keyed to the spindle to which the chuck is attached.
Here is a picture of the maximum backlash between the gear/spindle and drive pulley:
Backlash other extreme reduced.JPG
backlash measurement
I would like to ask you owners of a similar lathe if your setup has similar backlash or any at all. I'd like to know if I am chasing another wild goose.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

Harold_V
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
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Re: Rebuilding(?) a worn out lathe.

Post by Harold_V » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:10 pm

kroll wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:39 am
Please don't condemn me cause I paint a lathe or whatever,
One should not be condemned for painting a machine tool, as that decision is very personal, and can be done for the right reason. Some folks like their machines to look pristine, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, reckless use of the term "restore" should be avoided. Paint does exactly nothing in the way of improving a machine tool, so suggesting that the machine is "restored" tends to give a prospective buyer a false image of the real condition of the machine. Rarely will one encounter an individual who is truly capable of judging the condition of a machine tool accurately, so it's easy to mislead those who look for a shiny machine, assuming that if it's shiny, it must be good.

Many years ago we had a reader on the board who fell for just such trickery. He purchased a SB lathe that was totally clapped out, but looked great. Only when he tried using the machine did that become clear.

I would also comment that a total dismantling of an old machine will do little to improve it in the way of operation unless worn parts are replaced, and ways re-scraped. To do anything less and represent the machine as "rebuilt" is fraudulent. For example, a badly worn screw and nut assembly that has been cleaned and re-assembled is still badly worn. Cleaning won't (significantly) improve its performance. Might work smoother, but it will still have the same amount of error.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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