Lathe comparison

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

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SteveM
Posts: 7763
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:18 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Lathe comparison

Post by SteveM »

I've been shopping for a new (to me) lathe to replace the Atlas.

There's a South Bend Heavy 10 (10L) I'm looking at, and I also know someone selling a Clausing 4900.

I just turned down a really nice 1963 South Bend 9A cabinet model with a hardened bed at a really good price, but I figured that I was going to outgrow it really quick. I had a friend's son buy it, so it went to a good owner.

The attached chart shows comparisons between these three lathes.

I'm not sure what the spindle taper is and the collets for the 4900 (I think it takes 4C). The 10L is proprietary tape (kinda 5MT, but not) and it takes dime-a-dozen 5C collets. Advantage South Bend.

All three lathes are about the same size, but the Clausing probably has the 10L beat on rigidity, as the bed is almost solid. Advantage Clausing.

The 10L I am looking at has a hardened bed, although older ones do not. All 4900's are hardened. Tie.

The 10L has a 2-1/4"x8 spindle (although with luck you can find a camlock) with a 1-3/8" bore. The 4900 has 1-3/4x8, which is not as common, and a 1-1/8" bore. I'm thinking that the smaller bore is not bad because I would just like it to be big enough for 1" stock or stock I can turn down to 1". Advantage South Bend.

Both have the same number of speeds, but the 4900's speed range is more rational, with the slowest direct drive just above the highest backgear speed and the high speed is 1700 vs 1357 (due to the timken roller bearings). Advantage Clausing.

The standard gearbox on the 10L is 48 threads from 4 to 224, the wide range has 70 from 4 to 480. The 4900 has 54 from 4 to 224. Advantage South Bend with wide range gearbox, Clausing if not.

The cross slide, compound and tailstock on the 4900 have longer travel than the 10L, but the 10L has a graduated talstock collar. Advantage Clausing.

Parts and accessory availability is MUCH better for the 10L, although parts can be expensive. Advantage South Bend.

What are your opinions?

Does anyone know the spindle taper and collets for the 4900?

Steve
Attachments
LatheComparison.jpg
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wlw-19958
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Lewes, DE

Re: Lathe comparison

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

According to the sales brochure I have for the 4900,
The internal spindle taper for the 4900 is MT #4. Also,
the spindle is supported by a pair of Timken roller
bearings and not sleeve bearings.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
John Evans
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Re: Lathe comparison

Post by John Evans »

I am the first to say I am not a SB lover ,but I think I would go for the SB heavy 10. My current line up is a SB heavy 10 ,5914 Clausing and a Chinese 12X36 gear head. The SB is sold just waiting for the new owner to get the dang thing out of my garage. The Clausing is the cause for the SBs departure as it also has a taper attachment,don't need 2. I do NOT like changing belts,gear head or vari speed for me.
www.chaski.com
SteveM
Posts: 7763
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:18 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Lathe comparison

Post by SteveM »

wlw-19958 wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:14 pmAccording to the sales brochure I have for the 4900, The internal spindle taper for the 4900 is MT #4.
Interesting. What would you use for collets? I searched ebay and I can't find any collet adapter for 4MT, although, interestingly, I can find 4MT collets.

Steve
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wlw-19958
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Re: Lathe comparison

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

The 4900 I believe used an adapter for 4C collets.
There was an South Bend Heavy Ten with a smaller
spindle (The 10R) It also had a MT #4 spindle and
used an adapter for 2A (a.k.a. 2S) collets. If memory
serves me right, the 2A goes up to 11/16" and the
4C goes up to 3/4".

Of course, you can mount a 5C collet chuck on the
4900 and use cheaper 5C collets.

Also, the spindle bore of the 4900 is listed as 1-1/16"
and not 1-1/8".

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
SteveM
Posts: 7763
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:18 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Lathe comparison

Post by SteveM »

wlw-19958 wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:44 pm Of course, you can mount a 5C collet chuck on the 4900 and use cheaper 5C collets.
I have one and I think you are right that that would be the way to go. The manufacturer recommended a jacobs flex collet system, which are rare and expensive.
wlw-19958 wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:44 pm Also, the spindle bore of the 4900 is listed as 1-1/16" and not 1-1/8".
Yes, I had that on my chart and got it wrong in my test.

Of course, I delayed too long and the 4900 is sold, but they do come up from time to time.

Steve
plumberzpieco
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Location: north east ohio

Re: Lathe comparison

Post by plumberzpieco »

Having owned the lathes being compared I’d prefer the Heavy 10 especially if it were a cast iron base model. The problem I’ve experienced with the clausing’s is the lack in rigidity in their base and think their apron assembly is rather chinchy. Now if you had a Sheldon in the comparison I’d pick that.
SteveM
Posts: 7763
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:18 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Lathe comparison

Post by SteveM »

Actually, another lathe is available locally, an 11" Logan. I'm going to go look at it next week.

The Logan has a large bore spindle and accepts 5C collets like the Heavy 10.

Here's the comparison chart updated:
LatheComparison2.png
Steve
spro
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Re: Lathe comparison

Post by spro »

Some years ago I was able to get close to some Powermatic lathes. They were striking pretty in visual and the ways they would work. They are still Logan Lathes, Logan Actuator with parts available. Oh, I mentally kicked myself in my ass of a head for have been so already stuffed.
spro
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
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Re: Lathe comparison

Post by spro »

The later Logans had the L00 taper like the Clausings. Did I say pretty? Sure but does it perform ? By most accounts...well, I don't read most accounts.
I'm satisfied with what I have. One has an L00 taper and the Jacobs Flex collets' chuck goes right on fine.(No draw bar). It is unusual to think that way but the "L" series keyed taper were dang good.
ITS OVER It is striking Over with all the short taper and Camlocks. I've been over for decades and still work. The long taper is like many things. They are so cheap that you dismiss that. Then they are more expensive and can't find for reasonable price.
THEN the TV and net is blanked out with final message WE Ar.....
Stuff happens and Air Raid sirens didn't.
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