Lubricants to use on the moving parts of a lathe????

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

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mike71

Postby mike71 » Wed May 06, 2009 4:43 pm

All this time and I have never known what to use to put oil in the little ball check things..... please help a dumby out. :roll:

Black_Moons
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Postby Black_Moons » Sat May 09, 2009 4:42 am

Yea id check and make sure the grease hasent cloged up the port, ie insure oil is still flowing.. you might wanna take it apart and clean out some of that grease too, it could get in the way of proper oil distrubution, ie one oil point oils both sides of the V on the way, if some grease got in there wrong, you might end up only oiling one side of the V
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schwabw
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Postby schwabw » Sun May 17, 2009 3:43 am

Playing catchup, and on a quick skim, there a few things I didn't see (might be here) mentioned:

(1) check with the manufacturer; they probably recommend way oil for screws and ways;

(2) detergent automotive oils are bad news for machines as they will collect water;

(3) I'd say something about the spindle and (again) heeding recommendations, but I suspect the question was not about that.

Bill

gmann109
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Postby gmann109 » Sun May 17, 2009 7:03 pm

Enco has Way Oil by the Gallon for something like $15.00. With a $25.00 minimum purchase you get free shipping with Code WBMYP9 through the month of May.

CarlD
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Postby CarlD » Thu May 21, 2009 8:59 am

Almost every job shop I have worked in used ISO48 or 68 in the headstock of lathes and engne oil on the ways and some used it in the Bijur oiler on the mills and grinders. A few shops used ISO48 or 68 in and on everything. Lathes that get used for threading a lot get lubed by cutting oil mostly. I have never seen a lathe or mill damaged by using any oil available. I have seen them damaged by not getting oiled.

One of the major things is keeping the lathe or mill clean and oiled.
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schwabw
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Postby schwabw » Sat May 23, 2009 1:15 am

No argment that lubrication is key, but detergent oils are a disaster AFAIK - haven't tried it.

Bill

gmann109
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Postby gmann109 » Sat May 23, 2009 6:00 am

CarlD wrote:Almost every job shop I have worked in used ISO48 or 68 in the headstock of lathes and engne oil on the ways and some used it in the Bijur oiler on the mills and grinders. A few shops used ISO48 or 68 in and on everything. Lathes that get used for threading a lot get lubed by cutting oil mostly. I have never seen a lathe or mill damaged by using any oil available. I have seen them damaged by not getting oiled.

One of the major things is keeping the lathe or mill clean and oiled.


This is good advice. The issue of what oil to use or a lathe, or anything, seems to vary widely depending upon the person asked. I visit motorcycle, automobile, machining and welding lists that have machining sections. There is a constant line of threads about oil. There are the straight dinosaur people and they are opposed by the synthetic oil people, Then there are battles over what brand of each, followed by what grade to use, what additive and usage rating and, of course, how often to change and what brand of filter. The talk goes on into the night, day after day, ofen leading to heated arguments and name calling. It's funny if you ask me.

I can state affirmatively that I've used all of the major brands, synthetic and non-synthetic and I've yet to see a motorcycle engine, a car engine or a machine tool damaged by any particular oil brand or type as long as it was lubricated periodically.

On the other hand, I have seen engines damaged when the owners ran them out of oil and, this is just a guess, I suppose that a lathe or a milling machine could be damaged by failure to lubricate it at all.

My take on it is some oil is better than no oil. If you like way oil, fine. If not motor oil will work. It may not be perfect but at the last day, there wll be little difference when the last machine is scrapped. There may be a little more wear on the one that wasn't oiled with the right grade but probably not a lot.

So do I use way oil on my machines? Sure. I like how thick it is. It sticks and doesn't drip off quickly. But then I guess I'm skating on thin ice since I'm sure that someone will tell me that thin way oil lubricates better. But then I know a guy that likes chicken fat for cutting oil so I guess there's a wide latitude. Go figure. LOL.

Black_Moons
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Postby Black_Moons » Sat May 23, 2009 10:57 am

heh I think those motor oil people are crazy. Iv tryed real way oil vs a few other oils for my ways (hydrolic, 3-in-1, etc) and was instantly like 'oh wow.. its leaveing entire streaks of oil on my ways behind the gibs.. hey look my tailstock slides like a foot now! used to uhh.. basicly just stop. and wow is that oil ever nice and thick, just gobs outta the oiler.
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CarlD
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Postby CarlD » Sat May 23, 2009 1:37 pm

Can anyone give validated proof that detergent oil will damage or destroy the metal on machinery?

If so, can they give validated proof that the same detergent oil will not damage or destroy the engines it's used in?

By the way, you can make a very slick oil to use in place of way oil by mixing 30wt oil with 5% of STP. It's sticky as snot and just about as slippery.
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Bob C
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Postby Bob C » Sun May 31, 2009 3:38 pm

I had been using 30wt non-detergent motor oil on the lathe (and everything else) for quite some time. A couple of weeks ago I ran out and substituted 85-140 gear oil that I used in wheel bearings on an 18 wheeler. My rational was if I could run from the east coast to the west coast and back again with a pint of 85-140 gear oil in the bearings without problems my lathe spindle and gear train would get enough lubrication until I had a chance to get more oil. To my surprise after a few drops of oil on the gears and filling the spindle the noise level dropped by half. This stuff is sticky, thick and slippery.

I still have to wash before dinner no mater how hard I wipe my hands off on my pants.

pete
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Re: Lubricants to use on the moving parts of a lathe????

Postby pete » Mon May 10, 2010 4:39 pm

(Sigh!!!) I fail to understand WHY? people even question or do not use what the OEM of the lathe or machine tool recommends. For old equipment, The oil types recommended are usually not even manufactured any more. But a simple email or phone call to any major manufacturer of lubricating oils mentioning what the OEM listed will get you a cross referance recommendation of a currently manufactured and proper weight of oil that will not harm your machine. All oils are NOT the same or created equal Period. Yes the incorrect oil is certainly better than no oil. But why use it. Would you dump 90 wt.gear oil into your brand new car engine just because you had some handy? I'd love to see a post here saying I'm wrong. I work in the mining industry and a huge cost of our operation is stocking and using the various recommended oils and brands. When one V-16 engine can cost well over $200,000-$300,000 you don't go against what the manufacturer recommends.

Way oils are designed to both lubricate and have additives to help prevent "stiction" in closely fitted surfaces plus adhere to a surface to prevent the oil from running off and being wasted. Lathe gear box oils are designed to both lubricate and let any contamination settle out very quickly to the bottom of the sump and then to be drained/cleaned out at the next oil change. Automotive high detergent type oils are designed to keep contamination in suspension within the oil flow and then move it to the oil filter so it can be removed. I know very little about lubricateing oils but I know dam well I'm right.

Pete

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Rich_Carlstedt
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Re: Lubricants to use on the moving parts of a lathe????

Postby Rich_Carlstedt » Sat May 15, 2010 3:48 pm

Well, I just posted this on the other thread, and then found this slighly different post

" Way Oil" is a special oil, unlike any other oil.
First, it has NO sulfur. Sulfur is a great lubricator, as it prevents galling.
When you look at Pipe Cutting Oil, the almost black oil used in pipe threading, you will note that it has Sulfur, you can smell it and it makes all cutting operations a breeze, as far as preventing galling or welding.
There is a BIG problem with Sulfur....it stains iron...look at any of the old turret lathes and they are black. You don't want that. Even Automobile motor oils can have some level of sulfur. Way Oil will not stain your ways and they stay pristine . Greases can have Sulfur ALSO !

Second, Way oil has a "tacifier", which makes it stick ( Tacky) to the ways and not run off, or drain off.
You can oil your lathe and it will be there a week ( or more) later. Regular oils do not have tacifiers.

Third, is the most important function of way oil !
It prevents "Stick-slip"
Stick slip, is what happens when you try to sneek up on a cut. lets say you are facing a round piece in the lathe. You miked it's length, and it is 3.002 long and you want it EXACTLY 3.000"
Beware of stick slip !. You may have the spindle off, and run your tool up and touch the part.
Great...you think.. I will start are remove the .002 . You start the lathe and come up to the part and as you start to turn your handwheel, it seems very hard so you put just a bit more torque in the wheel and suddenly you jump .004" into the part. Bang , you lost it.....Why...Stickslip !
When you move your carriage, you may think its fine after oiling buts its not if it has the wrong oil !
Think of your ways as two steel plates. Put marbles between them, and wait a day, and then move the top plate. it rolls like nothing....we call that "no Stick -slip".
Now put some very hard rubber balls between the plates. The top plate moves almost as easy as the marble. But let it sit for a day, and when you push it, it resists moving because the balls have taken a "set". then when you do get it to move, it becomes very erratic and jumpy..
This is the reason that Sunoco 1180 was so good for many,many years.
No other oil could match it in stick-slip prevention and thats what Cinncinatti Milicron focused on.

The last thing is that Way Oil should not have"waxes" or at least minimise them . Wax is great as it helps all of the above needs for way lubrication.
It has a huge drawback, it plugs oil passages.
Cheap wayoils will use wax. As long as you are not using it in a system oiler, you should be Ok but ????

Hope this helps you understand why the proper oil is helpful. Any oil is better than none is a true statement, but the right oil not only protects your investment, but can actually make you a better machinist because you do not have stick-slip !

Rich


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