Lathe threading math

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

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Jacin
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Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio

Back to Harold (updated)

Post by Jacin »

Harold, I was reading this all along telling myself not to post any more as I have already said my peace, but then you go ahead and say this::
Yep! In spite of my over shoulder length hair, beard that has not been shaved off since 1964, my ear ring and my very outspoken independence, I'm not much of a hippie. I conform with the rules, drive the speed limit (I really do!) and I don't do drugs. I have been known to sip a bit of single malt, though. I like mine with water, heavy ice.

I make one hell of a good beatnik, though. (I'm saying this as I listen to some Errol Garner!)

Making me laugh my Asterix off!!!

You're TOO MUCH!!! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img]

You tell 'em Harold!!! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/tongue.gif"%20alt="[/img]

Those who can - DO
Those who think they CAN often CANNOT
(and more often screw it up - but rarely know it)
Those who know they CAN'T and don't want to learn are better off to find someone who CAN.

ROTFLMAO
Doug_C
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by Doug_C »

Hey Harold,

Anyone can cut a helix into a piece of stock using a nut as a go/no-go gage. Aparently , calling it a threading operation is subjective to the definition of skill the operator thinks he has, if the result fits his expectations.

I think the best that can be said for shortcuts or lack of proper tools. Risk shows no mercy on impatience, ignorance or budget constraints. That won't stop anyone though and I guess ya can't blame them for doing what they gotta do with what they have available.


The perspective that is hard to see is when they do not have a go/no-go gage. Lets say it is not convenient to get it to the lathe for whatever reason, to size check it for fit before removing it.





A perfect opportunity for them to gain the experience to:

1. Measure the part that it is to thread into or onto.

Not having the foresite to see this as a neccesary step would seem like a cool shortcut. Foolish, but until such a PIA as recutting or remaking the part is ones only choice. How many times should it take to learn how to do it with certainty, when squandering that opportunity is less work in the short term or worse not an option?

2. Put it back in the lathe aligned and pickup the thread to recut it again because the infeed method seemed simpler.

The other senario to this would be. Looking for another piece of material because the infeed method scraped out the first part from removing too much. Strange how redoing anything gives one time to think of how to avoid the situation that forced the redundancy in the first place.

3.See how results of poor practice multiplies into 2 threads to repair/replace because the threads on the mating part got buggered up, due to the part made by using the infeed method, damaged both threads from being too tight or to loose.

DC
oheider

Re: Back to Rich C

Post by oheider »

Gentlemen,
I have enjoyed this immensely and hats off to all posters. I am indebted to you all for another bit of my continueing education!
Thank you.

Otto [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smile.gif"%20alt="[/img]
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Harold_V
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by Harold_V »

Hey, DC!

Yeah, sometimes it's hard to save people from themselves, but we keep trying! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img]

This has been a fun thread, hopefully entertaining, but more importantly, educational.

I wish I would have stated in clear English right from the start that the theoretical information explains the thread, but the wires are how it's measured. That is really the message.

Thanks to all for having put up with my ravings.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Doug_C
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by Doug_C »

I'd hardly call it raving. Sincere ramblings not lost on the impressionable.

I thought it was plain english. I don't think they can say "It all looks like Greek to me!" [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img]

Some folks will always be too close to the forest to see the trees........

DC
wolkowis
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by wolkowis »

Harold,
You did a great job!
Thanks,
Jay
len
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by len »

Doug,
Some folks will always be too close to the forest to see the trees........


And some folks will insist that you see the trees, even though you are only interested in enjoying the forest. What makes you so sure your viewpoint is better than mine?

len
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Harold_V
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by Harold_V »

I thought it was plain english. I don't think they can say "It all looks like Greek to me!" [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img]

DC

Chuckle!

Nice touch! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img]

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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Harold_V
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by Harold_V »

Harold,
You did a great job!
Thanks,
Jay

Blush!

Thanks. I'm always pleased to hear that the effort was not in vain.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Doug_C
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by Doug_C »

I do not at all Len......Not at all.

Your viewpoint is something you must be satisfied with. My viewpoint has been trained to satisfy someone else's requirements without excuses or failures. The parts I cut are only as good or bad as my skill in making them. Trying to impart that concept here won't be accepted by all, nor do I expect it to. I would like someone to appreciate that effort, but I ain't hang'n out here for no kudos, awards or accolades.

That forest statement was not pointed at anyone specific here. That fits many narrow minded people we come across daily. I did not take anyone's freedom of choice away there did I?

Just an observation of what can be offered as helpful from one contributor, but not worth the effort to follow just because it is one proven way that has worked in industry for many years and for the good reasons listed.

Carry on with doing things your way. When you attempt to offer it here, be prepared to have others offer their guidance and/or even counter guidance. I get included in that with a little injured pride too.

How to keep from making that look like a personal attack is very difficult when it was not really intended that way.

All we can do is remain open minded enough to see what can be a good suggestion and toss out the rest. Would the ill informed really recognize the difference? Is it any more right for the journeyman level machinists here to stand by and watch others be guided into poor practice and all the associated problems that can go with it?

My thinking is:

Mushrooms grow around BS in fertile ground. Watch what you step into or lay in someone else's path. In any case, it becomes a reflection on you and what you have to offer others.

DC
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Harold_V
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by Harold_V »

Very well said, DC. And not just the quote. All of it!

It has been a constant struggle, both in reality, and internally, for me to try to dispense information without appearing to be critical of those that may not have shared my life experiences, just as I have not shared theirs. I certainly recognize that there are extenuating circumstances whereby others may have to do things that may not be in keeping with good and accepted shop practice. I've concluded that the only thing I can do is to tell it straight, in keeping with acceptable practices in industry, to the best of my knowledge. From that information one can pick and choose that which best serves their needs.

The other conclusion I have drawn is that I will not stand by idly while poor practice is dispensed by others. I fully intend to speak out, explaining what is wrong with any given procedure, and do my best to provide one that is in the best interest of the reader, assuming they have a vested interest in learning machining at a respectable level. I will not agree with those that are ill informed, so that poor practice perpetuates itself.

It might be a good idea if the readers commented. Would the majority prefer to exchange views on a layman's level, and not have those of us with commercial experience interject our guidance?

Personally, secure in the knowledge I spend considerable time answering questions and lending my comments, even when not asked, I'd be better off if I simply ignored the board. I could use the time elsewhere to great benefit. I've always felt I was contributing something to my friends. Maybe it doesn't work out that way.

I'll welcome comments such that if you'd prefer I keep my mouth shut, I'll do so. Let me know!

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Jacin
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Re: Back to Rich C

Post by Jacin »

It might be a good idea if the readers commented. Would the majority prefer to exchange views on a layman's level, and not have those of us with commercial experience interject our guidance?

Personally, secure in the knowledge I spend considerable time answering questions and lending my comments, even when not asked, I'd be better off if I simply ignored the board. I could use the time elsewhere to great benefit. I've always felt I was contributing something to my friends. Maybe it doesn't work out that way.

I'll welcome comments such that if you'd prefer I keep my mouth shut, I'll do so. Let me know!

Harold



Well Harold I am quite certain you know where I stand on this, but for the record let me state that I can go ANYWHERE for slip shod advice! Coming here I have learned from professionals like you and have even passed a small nugget or two along myself.

I look at it this way, just like anything worth doing, a fella has got to do his homework - you don't go out and buy the first car you see, nor the first house. You might be better served if you peek inside a fellas kitchen before eating his food!

If someone reads your advice and then deems it "over the top" then fine don't use it - it only hurts them. But I fully agree when they come out and suggest it is "impractical" or "too difficult" then THEY really are doing a disservice to us all. I'm all for having someone share a "tip" but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that they are all "fool proof" methods.

One of my many "hats" at work is writing/editing field manuals for our equipment (medical industry). I ALWAYS insist we define the "proper" methods - even when someone suggests the field guy will never follow it the way we wrote it. My defense is always - "Well when it fails - it will be his problem" And while that may seem a bit short sighted I've learned that I CANNOT control other people's work - only my own.Instead I try my best to influence them towards "toting the line". I cannot be part of allowing the standard to slip - that task is what the some of the self appointed experts are good at.

Harold I see little difference in what you are so feverishly trying to accomplish. So obviously I truely respect that. I also see your time as a gift to us wanting to improve our shop thinking as well as or machining skills. It's that whole "tech me to fish" thing.

Don't let the "nay sayers" get you down or worse yet keep you from posting. I don't give a crap if 99% of them wants you to shut up!!! They'd be WRONG and I'd be the first to say so. BUT!!!!! I think the true reality is that there is but a small percentage that doesn't want to hear what you've got to say. And frankly they are idiots. Any one and I mean ANYONE should at least listen to all points of view - they don't necessarily have to agree with them entirely, but to even suggest we don't listen at all is pure nonsense. Harold you just can't please all the people all the time. Especially when our pride gets into the picture.

It is simple really, each person can embrace whatever method they choose. Me personally I'd always prefer knowing the "right" way. I find it especially funny that as a mostly hobby board so many seem to not have the time to do it right, but instead think they can call themselves experts since they can accomplish (in their minds) the same task in the same amount of time. Bunk!!!! Plain and simple.
Personally I have had many interests over the years, and frankly I have (at times) produced results that rivaled what some of the Professionals do. And while that may sound like bragging - it isn't - it's the plain truth. What sets us apart is that most often it will take me 5 or 10 times longer than what the Pro's take. THAT'S where I come to really appreciate their skill. Fast, efficient, accurate. Then of course as the task become even more complicated then I clearly fall by the wayside and again we are set apart. Thems the breaks!!

Harold BOTTOM LINE - I have become a better machinist because of you and people like you. I have NOT improved my skills one iota by learning these so called "just as good" short cuts. PERIOD. End of story.

Tell me the right way and I have a chance at improving, tell me the short cuts and the only chance I improve is my chance to add another piece to the scrap bucket.


So THERE you have it !!!


That's MY VOTE!!!!!! Harold for President [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img] - !!!!
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