Clover 14/20 lathe

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wsippola
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Location: Trenton, On

Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by wsippola »

I bought a Clover lathe, made by an Italian firm called Merli-Volghera. Should be a picture attached. It has a 16" swing, about 4' between centers and a removable gap. Hardened bed, taper attachment, and 8 speeds with a top speed of 1500 rpm-actually closer to 1800 on 60hz. The clutch handle is up for forward, down for reverse, and brakes in the middle. It had a 4hp 3ph motor, but until I find enough run caps to build a phase converter, I've put in a 1.5 hp single phase motor. The 1.5 hp motor won't spool it up in top speed, but at least I can use it. Have not been able to find any info on the net on this, just an occasional question or picture of various sized clover lathes. The lathes.uk site sells a manual, but if I remember correctly, it's for a larger machine. Any one know anything about these machines? I like it, seems plenty rigid, and it has several nice features.

Wayne
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steamin10
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by steamin10 »

Get on over to Fleabay and get those caps. Better yet get to a motor shop and buy new ones that are good without question. Caps dont cost that much. I dont recommend buying used unless you know they are good.
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wsippola
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by wsippola »

Well you should normally use new start caps, but run caps don't have the same shelf life problem, so are usually fine used. I need to find a motor shop and see what they have. Spending far more time building the shop around the lathe than using the lathe. No rush, I expect I will find a deal on some caps sooner or later.

Wayne
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wsippola
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by wsippola »

Found a 4KW 3 phase motor to use as a rotary phase converter for my 4hp lathe. Stopped in at the local scrap dealer, asking about motors. They showed me a half dozen triwalls stuffed with all kinds. Picked out the 3 phase motor then found a Duplex D31 toolpost grinder, and 3 smaller motors. $100 for the lot. Scrap prices have gone up, but the toolpost grinder was well worth the money.

Time to start putting together the phase converter. I have the contacters, but a couple more capacitors would be good. The motor has a variable speed arangement on it that I will remove. Actually, it won't hurt leaving it on - might act as a flywheel. Don't know it that would be useful or not.

The toolpost grinder is a large, 75 pound 3/4 hp unit with a hefty cast iron frame. The wheel end has about a 2 1/2" disk with 4 bolts going into it. I suspect this if for a spindle extension for inside grinding and that it comes off for mounting normal wheels. Anyone know?

Wayne S
Richard_W
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by Richard_W »

Looks like a renamed Summit lathe to me. Summit has the wheel for shifting gears and a lever for high and low speed.

Richard W.
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wsippola
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by wsippola »

Richard_W wrote:Looks like a renamed Summit lathe to me. Summit has the wheel for shifting gears and a lever for high and low speed.

Richard W.
From what little info I found on older Summit lathes, there are some similarities. This is made in Italy, by some group of machine tool companies from what I gather. I don't think they made them very long. It has a label plate from some Italian machinists union. The lathes.uk site has no info on this machine, though Tony does sell some literature for larger versions. Some of the Italian lathes on the site also have several distinct similarities, such as the shape of the drip edge from the headstock to the suds tray, or the gear / threading controls.

I had a fairly clapped out American Tool Works from the late 20's before this one. I like this one better. It's actually in very nice condition other than some patches of light rust. It was being stored under a tarp when I bought it. Looking forward to getting some more hp on it, as the 1.5 hp is not nearly enough.Should be getting some capacitors for the rotary phase converter tomorrow.

Wayne
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wsippola
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by wsippola »

A couple of photos, two of the Duplex tool post grinder I scored at the scrap yard (45 cents a pound) and the other is most of the components for a rotary phase converter. The toolpost grinder needs a belt, and I'm not sure how the wheel mounts on the spindle. The end piece is 3.5" diam with 4 bolts. I think it is to mount an extension with an internal grinding wheel.

The phase converter motor is a 4kw German built motor with a variable speed pulley on it. The fan housing is severely dented, some cooling fins are broken, but it should do the job just fine. It is dual voltage, star for 380 volts, delta for 220 (or vise versa, I don't remember). I have a better contacter somewhere - just have to find it. The one in the photo uses a 24 v coil.
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English made Duplex grinder
English made Duplex grinder
Not familiar with this type of spindle end.  Does it come off to mount normal wheels?
Not familiar with this type of spindle end. Does it come off to mount normal wheels?
phaseconverter.JPG
clover
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by clover »

I inherited this exact lathe with the exception mine has a fluid pump. I was also trying find a owners manual on this. Have you had any luck in your search? Any help would be appreciated.
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wsippola
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by wsippola »

I never found any information on this lathe. A few photo's of other models online, usually for sale. I expect there were not very many made, mine has a 3 digit serial number on the bed and tailstock - something like 763, but I don't recall. One other was discussed on this site, they wanted a photo of the change gear tables.

I still have mine, used it a couple days ago to turn some spindles out of wood for an old walking plow restoration that I made new handles for. I seem to have sheared something in the feed shaft drive, but haven't investigated that yet. It's a pretty simple carriage, no real clutch for the feed - it slides a drive gear one way for longitudinal feed and the other way for crossfeed. It does have a slipclutch. The gears are a little on the thin side in the carriage, not bad in the headstock. Mine came with a 4hp 3phase motor which was changed to a 1.5 hp single phase. Not big enough, and won't power up in top speed. I have a 3hp single phase I'll put in one of these days, or I could run it off my RPC. Let me know if you have any questions, I've had the carriage apart, but not the headstock.

Wayne
clover
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by clover »

Mine is also set up single phase. I am however to hit all the speeds. We were turning a shaft last week and the lost the feed (Octogon bar, not the lead screw bar) and I want to investigate. I tried it this morning and everything is working fine. I am starting to wonder if the problem is due to heat? Maybe the clutch? I would love to get my hands on some type of manual. I am a little hesitant to start tearing things apart. I do not think it is the carriage because the bar looks like it is slipping and you can grab it and make it stop. Of course this morning when it was cold it turned fine and I was not able to stop it. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
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Harold_V
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by Harold_V »

Open the end cover and see if you can determine where it's slipping. I don't expect you'd find a clutch, but I may not be right. I'd think either the banjo has slipped, allowing the gears to lose mesh (should make noise) or there's a shorn pin somewhere. If you can see where motion stops, it should be easy to isolate the problem.

Harold
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home boy
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Re: Clover 14/20 lathe

Post by home boy »

I have a clover 14/20 lathe as well but I cant get it to thread properly, when you open the back cover it has a 21 teeth gear at the top that connected to the spindle shaft, and a 80 teeth intermediate but it does not say what the gear to connect the lead screw should be. that is the gear I need to know to complete the gear chain.
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