Who made this lathe

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

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imbetrnu2
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 10:54 am

Re: Who made this lathe

Post by imbetrnu2 »

Well, well, well.... It would seem the general opinion would be to sell the kart outright and shop further for something more suitable with a higher spindle speed and quick change gearing... Being as I am going listen to the advice im am being given here how about another set of questions.... Im pretty damn simple and although good at welding and building bikes, I have very very little knowledge in the lathe area (im sure everyone has figured that out by know) Any manufacturer and models I should be looking for once I sell this kart? What would be a fair price range for that manufacturer and model? and does anyone wanna buy a fast, adult go kart?

You guys help has been great

dave
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Harold_V
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Who made this lathe

Post by Harold_V »

Assuming it would be in the proper size range, the epitome of engine lathes is the model EE Monarch, but they are fraught with issues, and can be exceedingly expensive to repair. The average person might not understand just how good these machines were in their day.

I don't think it's wise for you to try to purchase a particular machine. Just keep your eyes open for mid-sized lathes, especially if you're located where there's a market for them. Considering I see no location in your profile, I have no way of knowing.

Here's what I'd insist on getting in a machine. YMMV.

I would not settle for a threaded spindle. Way too limiting and clumsy to use.
I would not settle for a lathe that didn't come with a quick change gear box----but then I worked most of my productive years as a machinist and understand the value of being able to change feed rates on the fly---as well as the convenience of being able to select thread pitches without stopping to modify the machine. That may not sound like a big deal, but if you're making a part that demands power feed (what part doesn't?), and also a thread, and you have multiple parts to make, how convenient is it to make those changes each time you produce a part?

See what I mean?

I would not settle for a machine that didn't offer plug reverse.

Yeah, I know, who cares if the machine won't run backwards? I'll just do everything in a forward direction.

That's a good story, but one that doesn't wash when you understand lathe operations.

Want an example?

How would you retract a tap if you couldn't reverse the machine? You can trust me that if you don't have reverse, or a powered variable speed tailstock (which is never found on an engine lathe), you can't. You stop the spindle and do it by hand. Not my idea of having fun.

I would not settle for a lathe that doesn't have feed on the cross slide. Some don't have.

I would not settle for a lathe that uses the thread of the screw to generate feeds. It should be reserved strictly for threading, so it isn't worn beyond the ability to generate accurate threads. Machines that use the screw for that purpose often do it via the half nuts, so there's no cross feed on the cross slide, and there's heavy wear on both the screw and half nuts. There are exceptions, but in such cases the screw has a full length keyway that is used to drive the feeds instead of the thread, and the half nuts are not used. That's acceptable.

I would not settle for a threaded spindle. It's very old technology-----not used in industry for a very long time, and for very good reason. It's too easy for the chuck to become dislodged, and prevents plug reversal of the spindle as a result. You also can't take serious cuts in reverse, which can become an issue. Avoid a threaded spindle if you can. The best choice is one of the D spindles (cam lock), with L series (tapered spindle nose with key and locking ring) being the next choice.

I would not own a lathe that didn't have respectable spindle speeds. My personal opinion on a home shop sized machine would be that it had, at a minimum, 2,000 rpm as a top speed. More is better, but not necessarily a reasonable choice, especially with older machines.

I would not settle for a flat belt driven spindle. Not for any reason, unless it was my only option. Flat belts scream of old technology, including slow spindle speeds, to say nothing of poor power transfer to the spindle.

I would not settle for a lathe that could be stalled easily. While that may save you in a crash, it also limits the work the machine can do, so moving metal (roughing) now becomes difficult, if not impossible. At the minimum, I'd demand at least a one horse motor for a lathe, unless it was purchased expressly for small work---meaning 1" diameter and smaller.

I would not settle for a lathe that displays obvious wear on the ways. If they're worn, so is the rest of the machine, even if it's not obvious.

I would not settle for a lathe that has sat in weather (rusted) and has been cleaned up. Keep in mind, what you pay for in machine tools is precision. If a machine rusts, it's no different from experiencing extended usage, as rust removes metal, just as wear does.

Do not make a choice just because a machine will make chips. Making chips is easy----making good parts, not so much. There's no shortage of guys who struggle trying to do good work when the problem isn't with them, but with the piece of junk they're trying to use. A worn out machine can be very frustrating to use.

Because I've used machines in industry, I would not settle for the home type machines, in general--but that doesn't mean you shouldn't. It's my personal narrow mindedness that causes me to make that statement. It's hard to revert to the horse and buggy if you're used to driving a nice car, if you get my drift. The machines I would choose display all of the features I've mentioned---features that have evolved of need in the real world. That may or may not translate to the home shop, especially for the guy who has never experienced industrial grades of machinery. Said another way, if you've never used a cell phone, do you really miss not having one?

I realize this isn't helping---but it will provide things to think about--things that will become issues as you progress in the art of machining. If you make good choices early on, you may avoid having to start over, which has merit in that the tooling you accumulate may not be compatible with a later upgrade. Chucks, for example.

Try to not get in a hurry. Wait for the right deal, and, for sure, don't trade that very nice looking cart for either of those two machines. In my opinion, that would be a lop-sided trade.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
John Evans
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Phoenix ,AZ

Re: Who made this lathe

Post by John Evans »

I have to say that I agree 100% with all of Harold's statements here. My first lathe was a 12" Atlas that was as new ,chuck had never been mounted. Second lathe was a used Atlas not bad. Third lathe is a 12X36 Acra Turn [Chinese of some flavor] brand new and has all Harold's features save plug reverse 1000+ lbs of very good machine.
www.chaski.com
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BadDog
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Who made this lathe

Post by BadDog »

As usual, Harold explains it well.

My first lathe was bought specifically because I was tired of paying ridiculous prices for spherical rod end "high misalignment" spacers. It was a Grizzly G4000 (9x19) lathe that I thought was easily more than I needed for some spacers turned from 1" to 1.25" stainless. Oh my, what a painful experience that was. There was really nothing good to say about that lathe, other than it was basically brand new and at a price less than half new including some accessories for the price. But it taught me what would NOT work...

Then I took what I learned about lathes, and what I needed/wanted, and identified a lathe that suited that need. It was a Rockwell 11x37. Very nice lathe for it's size, intended for light industrial and job shop work. L00 spindle, 1.375 spindle bore with 5C setup, 1500 rpm top speed (which I learned was only barely adequate at times). It had been used commercially with a bed turret (included), so almost zero wear on the bed ways. And as far as what I needed, I got it right, for the most part. It easily did 99% of what I needed. But there were those jobs where I repeatedly stalled it, or wouldn't quite fit through the spindle, or I ran out of tailstock travel, or needed metric (left hand) threads, or any of a long list of things that I could generally "work around" with some thought, effort, and time; but it grew increasingly frustrating. Some jobs I even had to drive down and visit a friend to use his Mori Seki 1250 (basically a 17 x 60). Oh my, that was sooo niiiicce...

So I got it in my head I wanted a lathe like that. A few auctions later and I found my current 17x60 7.5 HP D1-6 spindle, over 2k rpm, over 2" spindle hole, 5"+ compound travel, 5"+ tailstock travel, with over 4500 lbs of iron beast (for a home shop), and I've never regretted it. It's an Osama Sr (identical to Victor 17x60 industrial lathe, but changed name for obvious reason) not a Mori, but the price was less than half what a bare Mori would cost, and it came with a brand new Newall DRO, some chucks, and other accessories. I've made parts ranging from the largest around 8" x 12", down to "tiny" (like loose it in the chip pan of a small lathe tiny) on that lathe. I'm also not a patient user willing to wait while it completes a slow shallow cut, and it will easily rip off 0.500 with a decent feed on a 5" slug of carbon steel and not break a sweat. Once in a while I wouldn't mind having a lathe dedicated to small stuff, but for my needs and wants, I'm quite content with this as my single lathe. If I can ever get my to-do list knocked back down enough to finish the tracer project I have at about the 80% stage, life will be even better...

Not sure if that helps, but that's the short version of my ~6 year lathe odyssey. Each upgrade was painful in it's own way, because each was a jump to a different category of machine and basically required complete retooling as well. I wish I had known where it was going to start with, I could have saved a LOT of time, energy, and perhaps most importantly... money. Hopefully my experience will provide something useful.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper
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