Mystery lathe

[SteveM]

Here's a "what is it?".

Picked this lathe up recently.

The compound says Harding Bros, and has the serial number 11920, which dates it to about 1935, according to one source.

The lathe doesn't appear to be Hardinge. There are no maker marks on the headstock, tailstock or bed.

The compound is attached to the lathe bed with a block that looks like it belongs both to the lathe and to the compound. It's nicely made and hand scraped.

I was thinking that the lathe was a wood lathe, but the headstock has indexing (see the plunger on the side of the headstock). The headstock appears to be ball bearing. It's Morse taper 3 and threaded 1-3/8x8 (not 1-1/2x8 as I first thought). Also, the tailstock has a dial calibrated in thousanths, which would be pretty useless on a wood lathe. The tailstock appears to be made for the bed and not modified to fit it.

There is a 3C collet closer that is the correct length for the headstock. It appears to be Hardinge / Cataract based in photos of others I have seen.

Anyone recognize it?

Steve

[SteveM]

More pictures.

[spro]

My thoughts are a bit jumbled about this. I want to say something yet cannot assemble it correctly. Of course "some guy made it" occurs to me and many. Remove the feet and die cast pulley and it is a different thing. I have something similar to this. It was a "milling machine lathe" . Back in the day a fixture as this was mounted on the table of a plain mill and presented to the wheel an adjustable angle. There was milling by index and also the headstock spindle could be driven (by flat belt) off the mill's drive. The way mine is made, it is similar to an Ames lathe or early Hardinge. There is a splitbed, flat on top and angled "ways" at outside. It has index at the head and a tailstock also. I too thought it was just something jumbled together but upon closer examination.. At the end of the bed is a brass "pointer" which is exactly what you would expect a pivoting fixture as this had. One would have to go back to very early machine books to see one.
It was put together that way for a reason, I believe.

[Jaxian]

I took this picture a few weeks ago at the local used machinery place. It's a early Hardinge Bros split bed. Seems like a lot of the little details are the same. This one in the photo actually has a matching factory wood table. Some supports where added later but the rest was original. Kinda cool. Seems to be some resemblance. Could just be different pieces mixed though. I am not an vintage machine guy. I can ask about what year this one was when I am down there next if you would like. They sold it pretty quick.

[SteveM]

The compound is close if not identical.

The rest of it is the mystery. I couldn't find any Hardinge / Cataract lathes with a bed this thin. Most if not all are of the half-round with inverted dovetail on the top like that one.

Steve

[spro]

Part of the answer resides in these machined channels along the sides of the bed. The head and tail doesn't use them. The compound/table doesn't use them.. or did it? There was a reason for those channels/slots. It is as if a bed as this was auxiliary work centers upon a larger machine. The channels are akin to the side slots of Vee Blocks for a clamp or something.

[SteveM]

Actually, the headstock and tailstock do use the rails on the bed.

The adapter, which is just barely visible in the third picture, has two grooves in it to ride on the rails on the bed.

Steve

[spro]

I am not unique by having actually bought a Hardinge cross and compound because it would "fit" that bed. The height was wrong, of course because it wasn't for that. It was because I THOUGHT the center gap would be the point of attachment. I don't think that is true anymore. I believe an auxiliary bed as this is a bed upon a plain mill which is adjustable for angle. The base and everything about it is too square to be a mere lathe bolted to a bench.

[SteveM]

The prior owner used it standalone as a lathe, but there's no saying what the owner before them did.

Steve

[spro]

By the combinations of this discussion we should know. If you and I have a lathe fixture like this there are many more and similar questions. Mine has a pointer at one end of the bed. That's a major clue. Yours may have some tapped holes, can't say. Without feet, it is a similar fixture.
This fixture is valuable by itself for what it presents to a "plain" mill. There should not be a mystery about it. I muddied the waters by saying go way back but this type thing WAS used way back and more recently. It is a bed upon a bed which could be angled.