Killing end mills left and right...

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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steamin10
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by steamin10 »

WJH: chain drilling is for hammer and file guys. Trying to cut from hole to hole is like driving down a corduroy road at high speed, and does you a diservice. One snatch and BING goes your EM, new or not. Trust me, I have eaten lots of small end mills, until I learned to limit my bite and speed.

Ya slop in the screws are death to EMs. If you see the table making bouncy moves, you need to change something so the only movements are by your inputs on the wheels. Slow and steady speeds. DONT RUB! Some materials work harden in a blink of an eye, so this must be considered too.

And motor oil is not cutting oil. I use bacon fat on the lathe with an acid brush, Kerosene on the mill for aluminum, or tap magic ($). Liquid dish soap, Dawn or similar, +10 pts water, works for flood if nothing else. of course store bought coolant mixes are best, but can become a problem with smell and bacteria over time.

Just sayin what I do. It is up to you.
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WJH
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by WJH »

steamin10 wrote:WJH: chain drilling is for hammer and file guys. Trying to cut from hole to hole is like driving down a corduroy road at high speed, and does you a diservice. One snatch and BING goes your EM, new or not. Trust me, I have eaten lots of small end mills, until I learned to limit my bite and speed.

Ya slop in the screws are death to EMs. If you see the table making bouncy moves, you need to change something so the only movements are by your inputs on the wheels. Slow and steady speeds. DONT RUB! Some materials work harden in a blink of an eye, so this must be considered too.

And motor oil is not cutting oil. I use bacon fat on the lathe with an acid brush, Kerosene on the mill for aluminum, or tap magic ($). Liquid dish soap, Dawn or similar, +10 pts water, works for flood if nothing else. of course store bought coolant mixes are best, but can become a problem with smell and bacteria over time.

Just sayin what I do. It is up to you.
I am going to rig up a flood coolant system, and pay close attention to feeds and speeds. Will do the next set of frames with a 1/4" rougher. Cheap flood coolant system will pay for itself in longer life of cutters.
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tornitore45
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by tornitore45 »

I have chain drilled at least a 1/4 mile and cut the ribs with chisel, hack saw and even end mills now that I can.
My favored chain drill is #5 drill (have a lifetime supply) on 1/4" centers. I can resharpen a drill bit but not End Mills.

Unless you want to make a pumped coolant system, a squirt bottle with Rustlick solution work fine without a big mess.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
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The Train Guy
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by The Train Guy »

Feeds and speeds
Surface feet x 3.82 / by dia of cutter = RPM
RPM x chip load (per flute)x #of flutes = feed rate (inch per minute)
compressed air works well as coolant and will eject your chips as well. Look up cool mist it is a good coolant for manual machines. Comes in 1 Gal bottle of concentrate it is water based coolant that uses a shyphon from your air line to spray your tool/work peice it has adjustable flow and can be used without the coolant (air blast)

-Noel
WJH
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by WJH »

Bought a 500gph marine bilge pump and a 5 gallon bucket. Also various pvc pieces, and a ball valve to control flow from the pump. Certainly a poor mans flood coolant system.
On another note, why I love McMaster Carr, they don't sell junk. They didn't list who made my new 4 Flute double ended end Mill, but it put a smile on my face when I read "Niagra". The rougher is also American made.
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by Glenn Brooks »

WJH wrote:Bought a 500gph marine bilge pump and a 5 gallon bucket. Also various pvc pieces, and a ball valve to control flow from the pump. Certainly a poor mans flood coolant system.
On another note, why I love McMaster Carr, they don't sell junk. They didn't list who made my new 4 Flute double ended end Mill, but it put a smile on my face when I read "Niagra". The rougher is also American made.
Are you going to recycle the coolant? If so you could put a false bottom in the bucket, say with 1/4" hardware cloth, and let the metal shavings settle out in the bottom before pumping back through with your bilge pump.

Alternately, just pump back into one bucket, and decant off and gravity drain down into a second bucket. The heavy stuff will settle out.

Use a fish tank pump if the bilge pump pushes to much coolant. Much much lower flow rate. You won't need 500 gallons per minute of coolant flooding your table.
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Gary Armitstead
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by Gary Armitstead »

W,

Do you by any chance have a compressor in your shop? Just rig up an air line with a small nozzle.....you know the ones with the blue and orange pieces that snap together. Very inexpensive. Get a little valve that usually is sold with these lines. Cutting 1018 with flood or even spray coolant does NOTHING for the cutter or your shop environment. With over forty years in the die sinking trade, we cut many types of die steels in the 45-50 RC and NEVER used coolant. ONLY air.The only time we used coolant was for cutting Inconel or titanium forgings some other tough and hard steels. I DID use coolant in my Haas, Cincinnati and Seeburg NC mills. But that is an enclosed system. We were also using very small endmills (smaller than you are using in your project) in huge Cincinnati hydrotels with upwards of 50 HP. I use air for removing the chips from hugging the endmill. THAT is what is causing your cutters to get dull and break. DON'T use a cutting oil. Big waste of time AND oil AND dirty. I have an inexpensive ENCO mill/drill in my garage and built my entire Gene Allen ten-wheeler with it! Kept the gibs snug. Put a little tension on the table on the table hold handle just to keep the play in the table to a minimum. I always found that working at home, the cutters would become a little "magnetic" at times and hold the chips. A very fine spray of air would remove them without blowing chips all over my shop. Be FRUGAL with the air.
Gary Armitstead
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WJH
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by WJH »

Gary Armitstead wrote:W,

Do you by any chance have a compressor in your shop? Just rig up an air line with a small nozzle.....you know the ones with the blue and orange pieces that snap together. Very inexpensive. Get a little valve that usually is sold with these lines. Cutting 1018 with flood or even spray coolant does NOTHING for the cutter or your shop environment. With over forty years in the die sinking trade, we cut many types of die steels in the 45-50 RC and NEVER used coolant. ONLY air.The only time we used coolant was for cutting Inconel or titanium forgings some other tough and hard steels. I DID use coolant in my Haas, Cincinnati and Seeburg NC mills. But that is an enclosed system. We were also using very small endmills (smaller than you are using in your project) in huge Cincinnati hydrotels with upwards of 50 HP. I use air for removing the chips from hugging the endmill. THAT is what is causing your cutters to get dull and break. DON'T use a cutting oil. Big waste of time AND oil AND dirty. I have an inexpensive ENCO mill/drill in my garage and built my entire Gene Allen ten-wheeler with it! Kept the gibs snug. Put a little tension on the table on the table hold handle just to keep the play in the table to a minimum. I always found that working at home, the cutters would become a little "magnetic" at times and hold the chips. A very fine spray of air would remove them without blowing chips all over my shop. Be FRUGAL with the air.
Very interesting, I do not have an air compressor, it is something I need to add. I always thought the flood coolant would wash away the chips.
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Gary Armitstead
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by Gary Armitstead »

W,

We used a tremendous volume of coolant on our NC mills, but that system is entirely enclosed usually a large metal tank with windows to see the operation. But usually you can't see much going on with the amount of coolant swirling on and around the cutter and work piece. I used to bury a 1/4 diameter, high speed spiral draft cutter, 3 flute about 1-1/2 inches deep. This was in die steel and cutting a rib in a forging cavity. I would hand feed and you get to know the "feel" of the machine, even though it is a hydraulic mill. Plenty of air used in two or three different places around the cutter making sure that the chips come out of the rib and not get pulled back into the flutes to be "recut" again (this really damages the flutes and cutting edges). Even flooding the work with coolant, you have to make sure the various nozzles are pointing in directions to keep the chips away from the cutting edges. You do the same thing with air. Not full blast.....just finesse it with a volume of air to keep the chips out of the way of the cutter and get them out of the hole you are cutting.
Gary Armitstead
Burbank, CA
Member LALS since 1980
Member Goleta Valley Railroad Club 1980-1993
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tornitore45
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Re: Killing end mills left and right...

Post by tornitore45 »

As a hobby machinist coolant stream, mist, or flood is not practical in my environment.

My small mill has a slot in front of the table, presumably to set stops.
I made a column held with a T bolt into the slot nearly vertical, it can tilt left and right, blocked with a knob.
A second piece is mounted on a pin on top of the column, can be rotated in a horizontal+- plane, blocked with a knob.
The second piece has an horizontal hole, a clasp like you see on travel dial indicator hold a straight 1/4" tube with a small nozzle. The tube can travel and tilt respect the second piece.
Between the three rotation and the tube slide considerable position freedom is achieved.
A valve control the flow. A minor drawback is that the airstream aim is referred to the part, not the tool, but can be easily reposition during long runs.
Works for me.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
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