Advice on getting started

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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SHNorwood
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 6:29 pm

Advice on getting started

Post by SHNorwood »

I am an avid wood worker with an interest in getting into metal working. I would like to build brass / steel infill hand planes and am planning on purchasing a mill and a lathe.

For a mill I am considering either the Grizzly G0795 or G0619 in either case I will be adding a DRO and probably converting to CNC at some point.

It looks like to me that the main difference between the two is the G0795 is 6-Speed and a little heaver, while the G0169 is variable speed.

Any advice ?
John Evans
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Re: Advice on getting started

Post by John Evans »

Stay away from the Drill/Mill family .Buy something closer to a Bridgeport style machine as save yourself a lot of frustration. If you are planing production CNC is best done on a true CNC machine not on a home brew conversion. And if a lathe is in your plans minimum is a 12X36 and a 1000 lbs. Played with the toy machines and learned several hard lessons.
My hard earned .02
In any case metal working is every bit as satisifing as wood work , I do hope you will enjoy metal work whatever machines you get.
John
www.chaski.com
SteveM
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Location: Wisconsin

Re: Advice on getting started

Post by SteveM »

Post your location -there maybe someone local to you that can help you out.

You may want to specify where you are going to put the machines, as that may influence what you get. I can't get a Bridgeport into my shop without cutting a hole in two floors and a roof, so I have to go for something smaller.

Some will disagree with me on the used vs new debate, but you may find some nice stuff on your local craigslist. It's not really hard to weed out the bad stuff.

One thing about buying used is that, just like with cars, you won't take as much of a hit if you need to sell it.

I have a 12x36 Atlas / Craftsman, which is almost in the "toy machine" category John described (although I think he used to own one, so maybe it is "toy" to him). It's a versatile machine, there are a lot of accessories out there, but it doesn't have the heft for production work.

Depending on the size work you need to do, a 9" South Bend with quick change gearbox is a good starter. If you can find a nice Heavy Ten, even better. Don't overlook lathes from Logan and Sheldon - good lathes without the "name".

A Clausing 4900 is a really nice lathe in a small footprint. The 5900 series is nice, but the variable speed drive can be a problem if it goes bad, so I would not recommend it for a beginner.

Steve
SHNorwood
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: Advice on getting started

Post by SHNorwood »

Thanks for the feedback.

With regard to where it is going - I have a detached 1200 square foot shop built specifically for my woodworking. It has a 6 foot overhead door and 10 foot ceilings. It does have a wood floor (it's built with a basement) but I had it build with structural "I" joists 12" on center with 2 layers of 3/4 plywood on top to distribute the weight of my tools.

I have a separate 200 Amp 1-Phase electrical service, so anything with a 1-phase motor is no problem.

I don't plan on milling anything bigger than about 18" x 3" out of mostly brass. I would only be turning smaller objects, maybe as much as 3" in diameter.

I live near Frederick MD which is about 30 miles from Baltimore and about the same from DC.

Any suggestions on better sources than ebay for used equipment.

Again, thanks for the feedback
SHNorwood
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: Advice on getting started

Post by SHNorwood »

Just a little more clarity about my plans for metal working.

This is purely a hobby, not a production type application. I have a real job that supports my tool habit.

I did see the suggestion about Craig's list, I've never been on the site, but I'll check it out.

Thanks again.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Advice on getting started

Post by SteveHGraham »

To make hand planes, won't you need to be able to make molds and do your own cast iron?

I just took a look at a hand plane. It has several flat surfaces which appear to be ground, not milled. I assume there is also a ground surface in the area where the blade sits. A mill isn't the tool for that. I'm not sure you'll need a mill for any of your planes.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
SHNorwood
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: Advice on getting started

Post by SHNorwood »

What I want to build is something along these lines. The sides and soles are machined out of flat stock, and the blade would be machined out of some type of tool steel. The blade rests on either an "Infill" block of very dense wood, or on a machined piece of brass set in between the sides of the plane

http://www.holteyplanes.com/
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Advice on getting started

Post by SteveHGraham »

It looks like they start with flat stock which has already been ground, leaving the rest of the work for a CNC mill. I wonder how they did the front part for the chariot plane.

At least the screws and knurls are simple!
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
SHNorwood
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Re: Advice on getting started

Post by SHNorwood »

I think the front part is machined separately and held together as part of the dovetail on the sole. I assume the pins are pressed into holes on the front. In any case, that plane is way beyond what I would like to build.

I am interested in building a basic square body infill with the sole dovetailed to the sides and probably some brass pins between the sides to hold them square if the infill moves (actually when the infill moves, because it will move) with changes in humidity.
John Evans
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Location: Phoenix ,AZ

Re: Advice on getting started

Post by John Evans »

You need a real mill to do tool steel and 18" work pieces . A drill/mill is OK for small work and soft materials,I had one and was better than a grinder and file. I've had several of the Atlas/craftsmas 12X36 and in good shape do just fine on smaller work. But I get into things from a 1/8 X 3/4 shouldered pin to 100+Lb shaft out of a 40K winch ,that did not work real well in the Atlas,but got it done. I run the snot out of my 12X36 Chinese 11-1200LB lathe and it works well. Big or heavy I go to my 5K 18X40.As said the 25XX series Logan's are a great lathe in the 12" range.
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SteveM
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:18 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Advice on getting started

Post by SteveM »

SHNorwood wrote:I have a real job that supports my tool habit.
Yup, same here.

Sounds like you have a nice shop area in which to work. That gives you the flexibility to get stuff that most home shop guys can't take.

And don't let 3-phase power on a machine scare you - converters are relatively cheap.

If you are working on stuff 18" long, you will want a table substantially longer. The shorter Bridgeports have 32" tables.

Steve
Cary Stewart
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Re: Advice on getting started

Post by Cary Stewart »

I took a look at the Hotley site and my jaw dropped when I looked at the caption for the last photo. That's about $3000.00 for one of those planes!!!!!! The brass and steel dove tail construction is interesting. No wonder you want to make these yourself.
Cary.
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