Enco 91002 Clutch Question

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datmony
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:27 pm
Location: Duvall, WA

Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by datmony » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:07 pm

First, thanks for accepting me to the forum. Second, apologies as I am a complete newbie when it comes to milling machines or in this case a mill drill. I was recently able to pick up a nice condition Enco 91002 for an absolute song. It was $200 including a power feed for the table and including quite a bit of tooling. I was then able to follow that the next day with the purchase of a ton of nice milling equipment for another $200. So all said and done, I have a bunch of stuff to play with and I have it for cheap.

I cleaned up the mill-drill (and yes I have read thoroughly on its limitations and am not expecting the world, this is more of a learning tool that I will resell at some point for a knee mill) and the only weird thing I am running into is the clutch itself. This is the item that you can screw in a collar on and make it so it engages the micro adjust crank handle for the quill or you can leave it unengaged and use the unit as a drill press. The issue I am finding is that the clutch fits incredibly tightly on the shaft and as a result does not fully disengage and when you use the handle to operate the unit as a drill press it feels "chunky" because the teeth are still ever so slightly engaged.

I was able to remove the clutch previously and see that it is simply holding a compressed spring in place but am finding that the clutch fits incredibly tightly on the shaft and will not fully disengage. I am guessing this is not normal and that it should fully disengage so that the drill press operation is smooth.

Anyone else experienced this? Is it simply that the clutch is not machined to correct tolerances due to this being a Taiwanese unit? I also see that on the opposite side of the machine there is an adjustment and that would pull the shaft to the left if facing the unit. Is it possible that it was adjusted incorrectly allowing the clutch on the right side to pull too far onto the shaft and "stick" and not fully disengage.

Sorry I am sure this is a terribly stupid question but just not familiar with these units and trying to understand how to get this piece operational. I will actually never use it as a drill press since I have a nice clausing for that as well but more just want the unit to be operating as designed before I start playing with machining some material.

Thanks in advance for the guidance and patience with a dullard. :)

datmony
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:27 pm
Location: Duvall, WA

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by datmony » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:49 pm

Adding a couple pictures as well of what I am asking about. Once more sorry if these are stupid questions and or not in the right area. So I am wondering if I simply need to be 1) adjusting the nuts on the left side to pull the shaft to the left so that the clutch doesn't get pushed in as far and subsequently stuck so it will not disengage, 2) sand the inside of the clutch because it is simply providing too tight for the shaft and that is causing it to not disengage, 3) needing a whole new clutch and if so where should I source one from, 4) something completely different.

I know that these are simply Rong Fu machines and that they were rebranded a ton of different ways. I think this is a #30 style from what I have been told as it has a 29" table. If someone has a diagram they can point me to on how the clutch should be assembled too that would be great. Right now it is just the clutch pushing the spring onto the gear. Not sure if there are supposed to be some washers/bushings/spacers in there or something. God only knows where this machine has been in its life but since the bearings felt good and the price was too good to pass up I figured I would give it a shot if only as a learning tool and something to play with.

Thanks in advance everyone!!

Matt
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redneckalbertan
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:39 am
Location: South Central Alberta

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by redneckalbertan » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:51 pm

Welcome to the board! I would encourage you to add your location to your profile, if there is someone nearby they may offer more help than just a friendly word on the forum, but that can't happen if we don't know where you are! Not looking for your home address, but City, State, or County is nice, whatever you are comfortable with. To do this click on 'User Control Pannel' in the upper right corner of the page. Then click on 'Profile' in the box on the left hand side of the page. Enter the appropiate information in the correct box, then click 'Submit' at the bottom of the page.

I can't help you with your problem other than to say; If you remove the nut on the housing holding the spring that retracts the spindle (visible in the second picture) it has the ability to slice the palm of your hand if you are holding on to it... Don't ask how I know that!

Torch
Posts: 1537
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by Torch » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:27 am

First, welcome. Second: there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with your machine. Most machines of this class have a large mechanical push-button in the centre of the "drill press" spokes to engage/disengage the microfeed, not a screw in clutch. And yes, those machines fully engage/disengage the microfeed. It certainly sounds like something is amiss with your machine.

datmony
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:27 pm
Location: Duvall, WA

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by datmony » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:06 am

Thank you for the warm welcome. Ya for this one instead of a push button such as I have seen on others, there is an black screw on collar that sits to the right of what I captured in the first picture. The circular silver item sitting off of the gear is the clutch on this and it has teeth that when compressed engage the gear which is what engages the microadjust. Inside of that clutch is a spring that in theory should pull the clutch to the right under no pressure and fully disengage the microadjustment. I know I could get it to work to the theory I have in mind by either shimming it outward to the right slightly or by clearancing the inside surface of the clutch slightly but before I assume production flaw want to see if it is simply adjustment somehow but haven't yet found anyone that has one of these nor a decent parts diagram.

Thanks again for the warm welcome!!

spro
Posts: 7057
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: mid atlantic

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by spro » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:56 pm

Hi new member. My m/d looks similar to yours. Your idea of repositioning the downfeed shaft may be right. There is no interference with mine. I have the same black knurled collar. From the left/ fine feed side, to the right is 1+ 5/6 revolution of the collar.

datmony
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:27 pm
Location: Duvall, WA

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by datmony » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:36 pm

Thanks Spro. Could you perhaps post pictures of the left side of your machine? Curious how far the nuts are adjusted on that shaft as I am thinking that might be the culprit is simply poor adjustment from the previous owner.....

spro
Posts: 7057
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: mid atlantic

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by spro » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:45 pm

I'm not up to that now and yet to post a picture. I gave a general range of collar travel by revolution but didn't actually measure the travel. Assuming your collar is the same is one thing but taking apart my machine is different. The setting of the nuts doesn't mean anything because yours has a problem and we don't even know if they have the same parts. I gave the travel of engagement but I do have a thought. If the machine was largely used as a drill press, it may have worn out the spline used for down feed. That may have been adjusted tighter, getting into the less finished area of the spline. When that is done, it draws the down feed shaft closer to the fine feed clutch. So if you don't have that travel in the sleeve, to separate the two, you either need a part or a spacer shim.

spro
Posts: 7057
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: mid atlantic

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by spro » Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:57 am

My M/D was mostly used for light milling. I am the first owner and it was from the 1980's. The casting of the head is similar but there were differences. It appears yours is the 2 hp 36" table version. If I know that, more accurate checks could be made. That particular design stopped, yet there were elements of it which were very good. The table is really good but the honking heavy motor and head sort of overwhelmed that. That is coming from a viewpoint before knee mills. This one vertical mill is the only vertical R8 mill to make it down the winding area to steps into my basement. It can be 110f in my garage or so frigid with drifts of 41" of snow, to get there but I still have a vertical mill to make things.
You may find the fine feed is not accurate to the pretty dial. Around that time it was all metric and the dial was a wrong approximation to inches over any span. I recall trying to shift the parts and it cannot correct that.
That version had a crude depth gage in front of the head and quill, as if it was a drill press. Many people cut one section off and used a long travel DI to accurately measure.

datmony
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:27 pm
Location: Duvall, WA

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by datmony » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:33 am

Many thanks Spro. I was able to get everything apart successfully and found that it was simply a broken pin in the clutch that had sheared off and then been left to grind away for years and bind. Drilled out the pin and replaced, took a bit of 320 to the shaft and walla.... works like a charm again. Unfortunately though.... found out that the previous owner also was somehow able to shear the key for the collets in the spindle off as well and then apparently had tried to tap threads back into it only to break his tap off in the hole. He then apparently decided to give up and left the broken tap in the hole and used it without the key..... (insert head shake here)....

My plan with this machine is just to get it working as it was intended and then play on it a little. I doubt this will be a forever machine for me but it was incredibly low cost overall so it will be something good to mess around on and teach myself a few things.

Going to post a different thread on the spindle and see if some folks can give me a little guidance on best approach. I know what needs to be done just not entirely sure if those spindles are hardened or not and if I can tap it myself, need to find a machine shop to do it (of which there does not seem to be many left in the Seattle area). or try to source a new spindle.

Thanks again for all the thoughts!! Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.

Torch
Posts: 1537
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by Torch » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:38 pm

Is this an R8 spindle? If so the key is not really necessary.

datmony
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:27 pm
Location: Duvall, WA

Re: Enco 91002 Clutch Question

Post by datmony » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:06 pm

It is an r8. Any value in fixing it? It is all apart so if it is something of value I will fix it.... If there is no value I will just pack the bearings up and put it back together.

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