Indexing head recommendation

[Glenn Brooks]

Pete and Spro, thanks for the great input. Ian still looking for a DH for my new to me VAn Norman 12. Also have a smaller Burke #4, and a lightweight grizzly mill drill. Probably the two smaller mills wouldn't support a 10" indexing head. But the VN certainly will - once I get it set up. Still in the midst of sheetrocking my shop, and re routing some three phase power outlets. So all the tools are stacked under a tarp for a few more days....

Cheers,
Glenn

[Glenn Brooks]

A bit of follow up. I picked up a new B&S #1 DH clone up at Grizzly Tools last week, mostly on a whim. Nice piece of equipment. Brought it home and it fits very well on the Van Norman - which I have just started rebuilding; but found it is massively oversized for the Burke #4 (almost done rebuilding)- to the point there is no room on the Burke table for any decent work holding. So after trial and error decided Probably will take it back next week and exchange for the smaller model B&S -0 clone. I think it's better to initially have the one smaller one I can use on the Burke, and latter on both Mills until I decide which mill I really like working with better. I think it will be the VN, but it won't be ready to be plugged in for awhile. I can always latter pick up a nice larger Hardinge or similar for the VN if I really start needing it.

Also I need to investigate more closely what the range of indexing is -e.g. Could I make a 200 Indexed micrometer collar for my lathe's apron hand wheel with the BS 0, for example- which I need now...

Half my shop is 'must have stuff' which I end up never using... Until the day after I don't have it any more, then I need it.

Glenn

[BadDog]

Half my shop is 'must have stuff' which I end up never using... Until the day after I don't have it any more, then I need it.

And I thought that was just me...

[neanderman]

Half my shop is 'must have stuff' which I end up never using... Until the day after I don't have it any more, then I need it.

And I thought that was just me...

I second that. (Or is it third?)

In keeping with the thread, though, I bought a B&S #0 clone through Enco a while back. I haven't used it yet, but I was quite pleased with the fit and finish.

[pete]

Very handy having the horizontal Burke as well Glenn. Despite it's much smaller size the way the cutting tools are supported allows much higher metal removal rates with a probable better surface finish as well. But I'd probably agree that for now and unless you have some larger projects in the near future then the smaller DH that can be used on both machines might be the better choice.

When I bought mine I wanted a universal DH and that doesn't leave much choice for size. Mine with a 6" 3 jaw chuck on it weighs very close to 100 lbs. So using it on my BP clone is fine, but on my little Atlas horizontal it's out of the question. And it's insane what the original and very basic Atlas DH's are now selling for on ebay. There in no way worth the prices some are willing to pay today. Hardinge made a small and extremely well built DH for both there vertical and horizontal mills that would also work well on your Burke. But they really go for some big bucks ($1000-$2000) unless your really lucky to run across someone who doesn't know what they have. For even degree dividing Arc Euro Trade in the UK sell a reworked 5C spin indexer that takes ER-32 or I think another model that can take ER-40 collets that's not too bad on price as one more future option for you.

[SteveM]

I second that. (Or is it third?)

You second, me third.

Steve

[spro]

I quit counting. I noticed the ebay link to the general size (B&S 0) and it seems they have become more expensive. There are distinctions between sellers at around the same price. Some make it clear and one has pics of full universal with change gears and the tail.. but that's not what is being sold. I mean, far as I saw. It has a chuck, a 5" chuck and info that the spindle is 1 1/2" X 8 and has B&S #7 bore. It isn't going to fool me but another may think they are getting all the change gears and a tail to use them. You have to read carefully about what is actually being sold and that pictures were a similar set.
Not free shipping.

[pete]

Glenn did say he was exchanging his for the smaller one at Grizzly so he should be ok. I did just check the Grizzly website and there B&S 0 sized DH does come with the index plates and the tailstock.

[Glenn Brooks]

When I bought mine I wanted a universal DH and that doesn't leave much choice for size. Mine with a 6" 3 jaw chuck on it weighs very close to 100 lbs.

Pete, what types of use do you find for your chuck on a DH, and is run out with a three jaw Chuck an issue when trying set up indexing for a bunch of holes? For example, I have an older three jaw Chuck with 10 thou of run out and it causes me all kinds of trouble when re chucking shafts-- to the point I hardly ever use it any more for any second operation work. Just curious how one deals with run out on a DH???

Thanks
Glenn

[pete]

Well as always I guess it depends on just what level of work anyone's doing on a DH Glenn. But in my opinion a standard non set true type of chuck on a dividing head or rotary table is pretty much pointless for doing accurate work with that constant runout issue. If your going to have to indicate and check the actual runout on your part then your halfway to setting the part true in a 4 jaw anyways. And I'd sure have to agree with you about your .010" plus runout on your chuck. I do have a couple of quite expensive 3" dia. Emco's that were listed as "heavy duty" and are pretty accurate at around .001" for about any dia. I've checked them at. I could make an adapter so one could be used. But to be honest a set true or 4 jaw just makes more sense to me. Had my DH not come with that 3 jaw I certainly wouldn't have bought a non adjustable one for it. In fact I didn't even know it came with the chuck. So that 3 jaw is used on my lathe instead. It does use a backplate so it wouldn't be a huge job to drill/tap the chucks O.D. and then machine a bit of clearance into the backplate as a shop made set true chuck. But it's a fairly thick chuck, the much thinner (usually) 4 jaws would be better in that way as well.

When possible I'll always try and do whatever work I can between centres. Plus that gives you the needed cutting tool clearance for gear cutting etc. I do need to pick up a good accurately made 5"-6" dia. 4 jaw once I'm back to work full time that I can use on either the DH or RT. I do wish these DH's came with either a way to lock the chucks or face plates to the spindle threads or they used something other than the thread mount on the spindle nose tho. I've not ever had a chuck loosen yet, but it's always a possibility. Given the size of the spindle nose on mine they actually could have used the much more usable 5c on the spindle taper as well instead of the MT 4 they did decide on.

You also might want to give some serious thought to pulling your new head apart once you get it for a good degreasing of all the dragon fat/anti rust lube they seem to use. And maybe a bit of a deburr, re-lube and fine tuning adjustment. Both Keith Rucker and BasementShopGuy show the complete dis-assembly and re-assembly on there Youtube channels for the slightly larger B&S DH's that should be the same as yours. It will make a large difference in it's operating smoothness and you might even find a bit of grinding dust in it.

[spro]

Oh boy. I edited my previous post to read "B&S #7 ".. bore. I can see either that or MT #2. I've never seen a MT #7 anything and clearly my mistake. There's been good info since and I'll give Grizzly a look.

[pete]

OK I've edited mine as well to take out the MT 7 part. And no problem Spro, I've done the same while typing one thing and thinking of something else. I know they make an MT 6, not sure about a 7 tho. Even the 6 size is a monster.