vises ?

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Jaxian
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:38 am

Re: vises ?

Post by Jaxian » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 pm

In line with more modern vises I happened to get lucky and run across a complete fixture setup from Chick with two of their dual station vises on it. Here are the vises as I was cleaning them up.
VMC vises 002.jpg
This picture is them mounted on the fixture plate itself. The plate was for a much smaller Haas 30x16 machine so doesn't fit my machine well at all. I called Chick about the correct one for my machine and was told $4220. So, I won't be getting that anytime soon. I have them set outboard and the previously shown new Kurt DX6 in the middle. I figure it will be the workhorse and I will cry a lot less if I make a screwup and mill a $500 vise as opposed to a $2k one. The Chick ones are dual station but I have them just set as single station in the photo to keep all the coolant and swarf from getting inside while I use the Kurt one.
VMC vises 001.jpg

pete
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:04 am

Re: vises ?

Post by pete » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:18 pm

Now that's one I've never seen even mentioned anywhere before Jaxian. Pretty handy for the right work shapes. How's the clamping force compared to say a straight block in something like a Kurt?

Jaxian
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:38 am

Re: vises ?

Post by Jaxian » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:12 am

pete wrote:Now that's one I've never seen even mentioned anywhere before Jaxian. Pretty handy for the right work shapes. How's the clamping force compared to say a straight block in something like a Kurt?
I am actually a little afraid to test it. You see the jaws are hardened and have a very aggressive knurl on them. I clamped a piece of aluminum in it just messing around and put a halfway decent torque on it and it left serious serration marks. I think maybe it was from the days where work was biased much more toward the steel and iron end of the spectrum. For regular use the jaws would need to get smoothed a bit unless you used brass or copper that was thicker than the serrations are deep. The second jaw, normally the fixed one, does appear to move if you unbolt the clamp screws under the rail. It must have a pretty good size range.

Then again maybe it was for some roughing type of work where they just needed very irregular castings gripped very tight for hogging. It would explain a lot, they are not it would seem for delicate work. Also in case it's not evident in the photo that is on a No.4 Cincinnati horizontal table so for size reference it is pretty huge. You can see the 9.5" 300lb Cincinnati vise in the background. The sheer height of it would seem to scream that it belongs on on a HBM or a VTL or something of that sort where your vertical axis distance isn't an issue. Maybe a radial drill? One of the other two I have ever seen was on that radial drill Brian on YouTube just bought. Although as that is a 75 year old machine there is really no telling when that joined it.

Would love to know what the intended use of this vise was. I am just going to use it in the big horizontal for roughing as it has so much torque it can dislodge anything not held VERY firmly. Especially if using end mills in the 2" range or face mills 10" or over. Big old horizontals are not so vise friendly, the grip strength needed is astronomical on slab mills and aggressive cutters.

P.S. I do still have a few more weird vises to put up when I can dig them out. Two different sizes of thin piece vises, very cool and weird. Also some two piece vises that aren't of the Chinese junk variety, big 8"+ old monsters. I will try to post them up when I get my workshop more under control. Been a very busy year building the new workspace and am being held up finishing by the local power company running me around on three phase. So not able to finish one whole wall because I have no idea what panel to use, or where to put it, or no 3 phase and RPC or what else. They are really screwing with me. Four months and counting. I think the new guy wants a bribe to be honest. Never had to deal with that before. Went from 400amp 3 phase no problem, to 400amp 1 phase, to no we can't do anything, to maybe 200amp 3 phase. The whole shop is torn apart waiting for them to decide what they are in the mood to do. Ah, well, will post more vises when I can.

Harold_V
Posts: 16801
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: vises ?

Post by Harold_V » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:06 am

Don't know if this bit of information would help you in regards to procuring three phase, but I got a bit of a run-around when I made an inquiry in Salt Lake County several years ago. The immediate reply from Utah Power & Light Co. was "you can't have it, but if you could, it would be expensive". My reply was short and sweet, keeping in mind that at that point in time, Utah Power & Light was a monopoly, and was required to provide needed services to the public. I replied "I have three phase service now, and I live in a sub-division. I came in to get three phase power for my new residence, and I'm not leaving without it. If you can't make the necessary arrangements, get someone who can, as my next stop will be the public services commission, where I'll file a formal complaint against UP&L". Suddenly it went from you can't have it to "we may be able to arrange it free of charge", which was the outcome.

That's my story. YMMV!

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

pete
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:04 am

Re: vises ?

Post by pete » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:39 am

From what you've said Jaxian it sounds like your thoughts are 100% right. Very likely a vise designed for rough castings and maybe even meant for the horizontals mills like you say. It's a hell of a lot bigger than I'd thought. I was figuring maybe around the normal Kurt Or Bridgeport vise size. Funny I hadn't noticed Brians copy in his videos either. Fwiw you have my sympathy about your power problems. I tried 3 or 4 times to get the industrial electricians at our local power company to tell me what would be my best option to generate my own 3 ph. when I got my mill. A rotary converter, static, or VFD. I fially took a guess on my own and chose the VFD more by luck than good judgement. That was before so much about the VFD's was posted about them on the forums.

LOL, great story Harold, funny how things change when you know a bit about how it really works. :-)

spro
Posts: 6998
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: mid atlantic

Re: vises ?

Post by spro » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:05 am

Super cool vises. That one is special treasure I'd never seen. I do remember the "T" cart though. Western Electric used them exclusively for decades. They had an emblem and KS# on them so I think they built them. About the best cart you can find.

ccfl
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:14 am

Re: vises ?

Post by ccfl » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:29 pm

Anybody here with a genuine Kurt vise able to provide a picture of the underside of the movable jaw, showing the two little o-rings, which the import Kurt-type clones do not have?
"Never trust a man who puts a witty quote in his sig line." -Mark Twain

pete
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:04 am

Re: vises ?

Post by pete » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:34 am

Somehow I missed those Chick vises Jaxian. Never used one, but from what I understand there supposed to be even better than the Kurts and those look to be in really good shape. The only other I know of that's supposed to be compareable to the Chicks would be the dual station Orange vises. Sol at Orange vise has a quick change ball and socket system for mounting and dismounting vises on fixture plates and tomestones that might be worth checking out if your needing something like that.

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