vises ?

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Mr Ron
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Re: vises ?

Post by Mr Ron »

I don't have a Kurt nor do I think I ever will (too expensive for me). That said, I rely on hammering to set my work. My questions are:
1. How do I know when the work is set as low as it will go? When using parallels, I hammer until the parallels will not move. At that point I assume the work is set the best it can.
2. How tight should the vise clamp before starting to hammer?
3. I have been using a brass hammer. Would a dead blow hammer work better for me?
4. What face material should be on the dead blow? Leather, plastic, brass?
5. Can you recommend a good dead blow hammer?
6. Would placing a piece of round bar between the movable jaw and work aid in setting the work?
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
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warmstrong1955
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Re: vises ?

Post by warmstrong1955 »

I got by, and still use on occasion, a Enco built Kurt clone.
I did take it apart and cleaned it up, and more importantly, made the ramp smooth & polished. As received, it had a lot of lift when it was tightened. A bit of work with a file, and a soft disc cured most of that.

What I do.....
1: I don't hammer. I tap, and tappity tap. Doesn't take a lot. Parallels don't move anymore, put an eyeball to both sides, and you should be good.
2: Snug and tap, and snug some more and tap, tighten, and see what ya got.
3: I only use a dead blow.
4 & 5: I like the Proto (CompoCast) and the Armstrong one piece urethane shot filled hammers. I have several of both and various sizes. Work well on the drawbar too. All the cheaper brands I have tried, including one from Horror Freight, were too soft. Not a big deal when tapping on a vise, but for mechanical work, don't hold up well at all. You can tell when shot starts flying everywhere. :roll:
6: Depends on the material being held I suppose. I've done that, but have also used many other shapes.

There....my two cents....or....non cents..... ;)
Bill
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warmstrong1955
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Re: vises ?

Post by warmstrong1955 »

I wonder if I paint my old Enco vise Ford blue, it's work better....and be worth more....

;)
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wlw-19958
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Re: vises ?

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

I will do the same when working over parallels. I have
used dead blow, bronze and lead hammers for this purpose.
Brass and bronze can work harden and therefore may leave
marks on steel. A plastic dead blow works pretty well but
it isn't as good as a lead hammer (IMHO).

When you are seating the work in a vise without parallels,
place small strips of paper, one strip at each corner, under
the work. After clamping and tapping down the work, check
and see if the strips of paper are firmly held in place. If they
are easily moved, the work isn't set down completely.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
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GlennW
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Re: vises ?

Post by GlennW »

Mr Ron wrote:I don't have a Kurt nor do I think I ever will (too expensive for me). That said, I rely on hammering to set my work. My questions are:
1. How do I know when the work is set as low as it will go? When using parallels, I hammer until the parallels will not move. At that point I assume the work is set the best it can.
Yes, if the parallels are locked down all is good.

I use a 10oz orange Stanley plastic dead blow hammer.

I found that too heavy a hammer or too heavy a hit just bounces the part back up off the parallels.

(Damn, I type slow!)
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!
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warmstrong1955
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Re: vises ?

Post by warmstrong1955 »

GlennW wrote: I use a 10oz orange Stanley plastic dead blow hammer.
I found that too heavy a hammer or too heavy a hit just bounces the part back up off the parallels.
What? Are you saying my 12 pounder is too big???
;)
Actually, I have a 10 or 12 oz....not sure...hangin' by my mill.

The 12 pound is one in my collection, reserved for pursuading pins into buckets & booms & things, so as not to 'schroom the end of the pin.

:lol:
Bill
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ctwo
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Re: vises ?

Post by ctwo »

I think lead is best for setting parts and even bumping around in the lathe. I have a chunk laying around, but would prefer it on a handle. I mostly use a plastic dead blow, a small size black one I got from Enco or a larger orange Stanley type. I also like solid plastic hammers. I'm not that partial on the hammer as I adjust my technique to suit. I will use an LED flashlight to look for light under or around my part, when shining from the opposite side. I use paper, misc plastic pieces like lexan sheet or even zip tie cutoffs for cushion and clamping irregular pieces. Aluminum rod and other misc pieces are my favorite for making soft clamping surfaces.
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earlgo
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Re: vises ?

Post by earlgo »

For a good many years, I have used a wheel-weight ingot for thumping. It weighs about 1# and has the right amount of thump to seat the stuff I usually make.
thumpers.JPG
thumpers.JPG (68.78 KiB) Viewed 6686 times
A couple of years ago I bought a HF orange dead-blow but it rarely gets used to seat things: instead it un-seats the #40 NMTB tool holders from the mill spindle.
Just another opinion.

--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
SteveM
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Re: vises ?

Post by SteveM »

Mr Ron wrote:I don't have a Kurt nor do I think I ever will (too expensive for me).
I used to think so too.

I paid $150 for one of my 3" kurts, $50 for the other and about $40 each for two 5" Kurts. If you aren't finding a deal, you aren't looking hard enough.

Set up some searches on ebay with geographical selection. Bid on ones that are close enough to pick up, as you have an advantage over anyone that needs it shipped.

Set up and bookmark searches on Craigslist, and check them often.

Also, look for industrial auctions in your area. Any machine shop that is closing will have several of these.

Stick to 4" and 6" if you want to get repair parts. The 3" and 5" are no longer in production and they are running out of replacement parts.

Steve
Mr Ron
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Re: vises ?

Post by Mr Ron »

Thanks all for the dead blow replies. There's more thought goes into it than just hammering away. I checked MSC and they have 158 dead blow hammers listed. Most of my work is small, so a small DB should be about right.
I didn't realize brass work hardened as much as you say. I use one to tap the draw bar when removing R-8 collets from my mill. That's why the hex head corners of the draw bar are banged up; but of course a steel hammer would do that too.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
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Harold_V
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Re: vises ?

Post by Harold_V »

Soft hammer?
I've used pretty much all types in my many years in the shop. Nothing comes close to the performance of Nupla-Flex. They're available in a multitude of tip types (readily replaceable) and come in several sizes. I like the green tips for shop use, hard enough to be resilient, but not hard enough to do any damage. My favorite is my 1-½", but I also have a 1" one which I use for loosening the dial lock rings of my Bridgeport. Does that without any damage. I am not a plier type of guy.

My Kurt grips without lifting. I can't remember the last time I used a soft hammer for that purpose, although it was routine when I used a Bridgeport vise, which left a great deal to be desired.

I can think of NO reason to use a brass hammer. They simply are not a good choice for machining, as they work harden and damage steel parts.

Harold
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John Hasler
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Re: vises ?

Post by John Hasler »

Harold writes:
> Nothing comes close to the performance of Nupla-Flex.

What's special about it? I can find a million outfits selling them but no actual information.
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