Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Glenn Brooks
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Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:52 am

So I've rebuilt a basket case Burke #4 horizontal Mill over the past year that I bought from an estate sale, and just was able to take a test cut -plain milling - on a 1/2" piece of mild steel tonight. Basically the mill was in pieces when I bought it, so didn't see it in operation and have not operated a horizontal mill previously.

When I turned on the machine, I was surprised to see the (horizontal) arbor turning counterclockwise and the table auto feed moving the work from right to left. Basically, the opposite direction I expected.

I expected to see the machine run with the Cutter turning clockwise and table moving left to right, as this is all I've seen other machines operate.

Can anyone give me a brief primer on whether this is the accepted, 'standard' horizontal milling direction for the Burke. And more importantly, if the Burke isn't supposed to operate this way (counterclockwise cutter movement), what should I do to troubleshoot and fix. (I can't imagine the motor is turning the wrong direction as it showed no sign of having been cracked open by the previous owner. And the belt drive system looks basically foolproof, with only one way to assemble.... :shock: )

Note: I do have a NOS forward/off/reverse switch installed on the machine. I wonder if this is wired backwards???

Thanks much,
Glenn
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NP317
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by NP317 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:37 am

Always seek the simplest solution first:
Rewire the switch!
I was thinking that before you mentioned the switch.

Nice looking rebuild!
~Russ

earlgo
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by earlgo » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:45 am

My Producto-matic horizontal was ballast on the Mayflower, so it is hardly representative. However, it is set up so the spindle turns CCW from the perspective of standing in front of the table. This is handy because standard end mills can be used in the spindle using #40NMTB holders. When the arbor is in place, mounting the cutter in the correct orientation is easy. The original table drive has long been changed out, but replaced by a single speed reversible gear drive, so there is no help here with this.
Nice restoration job, by the way.

--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

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GlennW
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by GlennW » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:16 pm

Is the arbor or tool holder being used left or right hand thread?

That could possibly come into play.
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

Hopefuldave
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by Hopefuldave » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:38 pm

As Earlgo says, it means you can use normal endmills / slot drills / facemills in the horizontal spindle (via a holder), and a drill chuck in the spindle will be turning the right way too!

Dave H. (the other one)
Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of Wise Men - Douglas Bader

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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by wlw-19958 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:48 pm

Hi There,

What GlennW said. The horizontal arbor should turn in a direction
that will tighten the nut on the arbor should the horizontal milling
cutter slip while cutting.

If the arbor has right-hand threads, then the direction the arbor should
turn is counter-clockwise (as viewed from the front).

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

spro
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by spro » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:24 pm

I have a Burke #4 also and the drawbar has RH threads. The spindle taper is B&S #9 . The drawbar has two threads and a spacing nut for using either with collet or arbor.
Glenn B. Great rebuild on yours! I replaced the bearings and stuff but didn't get around to painting. The vertical head looks to be driven by a slotted arbor, as mine. Does it have drawbar threads ?

Glenn Brooks
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:07 pm

Thanks Spro, I think mine is the same as yours, RH threads on the arbor lock nut at least. Unsure about the vertical head as I haven't tried to use it yet, and don't have any collets for it. So haven't really even set it up. Soon though. Scratching around on ebay for collets. goal is to get it up and running and at least familiarize myself with all the operations,over the next month.

Still 25F in the shop. So only work a few hours until I have to call it quits each day. Winter is not my favorite time...

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

spro
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by spro » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:54 pm

Hi. I replaced the Timken roller bearings of the main spindle and trued up the taper. That spindle can hold some serious end mills and they don't have to be in collets, which are expensive. There are specific end mill holders with the B&S 9 taper and threaded tail for draw bar as the arbors for horizontal milling cutters/wheels use. The B&S taper is fairly locking taper but needs drawbar for milling wheels.
The curious thing is the slotted arbor which drives the vertical head is 1 1/8" diameter yet has no thread for drawbar. I just whack it in and the overarm center sort of keeps it there. I was wondering about yours because it appears larger. Mine is 3C and max capacity 1/2" shank.

Glenn Brooks
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:12 pm

Spro, interesting. Yes, I thought briefly about about end mill holders, early on, but forgot this is possible. Might be the way to go.

Thanks
Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

earlgo
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by earlgo » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:41 am

Looks like the cootie ran up the pant-leg of GlennW's new avatar. :lol:

--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

Glenn Brooks
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Re: Horizontal milling operations -Burke #4

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:36 am

Now GlennW, that's an Avatar. Obviously new, must have technology!!
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

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