Ordered a g0704 mill

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stephenc
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Location: youngstown ohio

Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by stephenc »

I gave up on the search for a knee mill in my meager price range today and ordered a grizzly g0704 mill .
I have spent enough time and effort looking at used mills to learn that anything in my price range is almost without fail worn out or with serious issues .

So a small mill/drill it is for now , in the end it wasn't a real hard choice .
The work envelope suits my needs and the price fits my budget .

I ordered a set of collets with it and a set of end mill's , I already have a vise that I will share with my shaper along with a clamping kit .
This pretty much wipes out my fun fund so I don't have any other tooling purchases or up grades in mind for the next couple months .

While I'm waiting for it to be delivered I need to come up with a solution to get it trammed in without buying anything . And maybe make a small flycutter .

I'll have pics when it shows up :)
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by SteveHGraham »

Congratulations! You are going to have to have measuring equipment in order to tram the mill or do much of anything else, so start preparing yourself emotionally for some more buys.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
stephenc
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:13 pm
Location: youngstown ohio

Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by stephenc »

Thanks :)

I'm ok as far as basic measuring is concerned , so there won't be any immediate needs there .
I should have enough stuff kicking around to make something to get things trammed in to something respectable enough to use the mill .
The first few projects I have in mind won't be very demanding as far as precision goes any way .

As far as spending any more money is concerned , it just isn't gonna happen .
I've been shoveling as much extra cash in my fun fund as possible for quite awhile now to buy a mill .
Now I have to take a deep breath and put some money back for things like home insurance , property taxes and the little woman's birthday .

I will have the basic things I need to make chips and use the mill , that's plenty enough to make me happy . Waiting a couple months to improve my tooling isn't that big a deal to me .
I'm just happy to finaly be getting a verticle mill :)
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BadDog
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Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by BadDog »

All you really need to dial in the head (measurement wise) is an inexpensive DTI, and you'll need that for many other things too. They are fairly simple little devices and can often be had surprisingly cheap if you look around a bit. My favorite are the B&S "Bestest" (or similar, including Mitutoyo and many others), which can often be found for $30 or less. Interrapid commands much more money, and I don't like them as well since they work backward to the way I think they should (and all others I know of agree). The only one I would stay strictly away from the Starrett "Last Word" (Last Choice more like it). They have as much a cult following as "Bridgeport" and "Southbend", but very often function very poorly unless well taken care of.

Anyway, with a DTI along with some way to mount it, you could hang it off a bent piece of rod (or anything that isn't too flexible) and do just fine. I have an Indicol that is VERY handy for dialing in a mill head, and import clones of it can also be had for around $25 from bottom-budget importers like Shars.

Like Steve said, you might as well accept that getting the mill is usually the cheapest part of setting up a home shop mill to be generally useful. Unless you are just insanely wealthy, you'll never have all the tooling you wish you had, or enough that you won't have to buy something new for every project, because you (I) never seem to have what I need regardless of how much I stockpile. You'll soon forget all about those little life distraction as you begin to expand your tooling... at least until you have to pay a divorce or bankruptcy lawyer... ;) Good luck!
Russ
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by SteveHGraham »

I heartily endorse the bent rod method of mounting an indicator for tramming, having shelled out for an Indicol before I knew about it.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
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BadDog
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Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by BadDog »

Indicol beats bent rod for 2 reasons. One, easy attachment regardless of what is held in the spindle. You don't have to remove and mount something to hold the rod. And second, for ease of position. Sometimes you want a long radius sweep, and sometimes you are centering a 3/4" dowel. When you can get an Indicol clone for less than $30 (IIRC?), the bent bar becomes mainly just a crutch until you can find something better, but it certainly works...
Russ
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spro
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Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by spro »

I read about that mill and reviews are overwhelmingly positive- especially from the Grizzly site.:) An issue about mounting DROs but nothing serious wrong about them. There are some trade-offs because it weighs less than other R-8 machines. Whatever works now and to looking forward to its arrival.
Not to mask over what Russ said.. I'm write slow.
pete
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Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by pete »

Hope you don't mind a few thoughts Stephen.
Got a magnetic indicator base and 1 thou reading indicator? Just unscrew the vertical rod out of that magnetic base, flip the rod upside down and use that in any drill chuck or collet of the correct size. Less time and much more adjustable with the second rod and snugs it came with than any bent rod. Even with better equipment today I still use that sometimes. An Indicol or clone works really well, but using the magnetic bases rods and snugs will give you a lot more extension out from the spindle for getting a good tram in the X axis. As mentioned having a DTI is better and more helpful, but a standard 1" travel .001 reading indicator can still work if you don't have a dti yet.

The first alignment step with these mills is to check that the table is flat. Then make the best cylindrical square your lathes capable of as a vertical checking tool. Heavy wall Sch. 80 pipe or thicker can make a good one. Making shop built cylindrical Squares of this type are easy to check with a micrometer to very close tollerances for being square. Don Baily at Suburban Tools did a great video about checking and testing cylindrical squares so even inaccurate ones can be used if you know where the inaccuracys are.Set that square on the table. Use the mills top Z axis handwheel to run the head with an indicator up and down the side (X axis) of the square. Then do the same for the Y axis side of the square. You need to get the main Z axis column dovetail true to the table first. That can take a lot of time and the head and column are heavy. But it has to be done first. Shim, scrape etc so once it is as true as you can get it then you can tram the head to the table. Even that may or may not show the mills spindle as still being square in the Y axis if the rear of the head wasn't machined true to the columns dovetail. Shim that if needed. Tramming for the X axis is a lot easier since the heads designed to be set to an angle if needed. I think it's also worth checking to be sure the spindles Z axis movement is running true to the columns alignment as well. There fairly good small mills and I've got the same bolted to the rear of my lathe. It wasn't bought from Grizzly but it's the same head and column.

A couple of years ago it seemed there was a lot of people on the UK forums complaining about the variable speed control boards failing within or just outside of the warranty period. I'd guess they've got that issue fixed by now, but it's something to keep in mind. When / if you decide to buy a milling vise there's not much out there that works well and would fit your mill. I haven't seen any of the off shore 4" Kurt type that were worth there cost. I'd guess there might be a few, but mine sure weren't. Poor to no machining on the internals, fixed jaw flexing a whole lot from pourous and weak castings etc. I bought a 4" capacity Accu Pro screwless or tool makers vise that fits the lathes cross slide that I'm more than happy with. And it does check out under the factory specs of being less than .0002 in every dimension I've checked. If you do buy something like that just be sure to find one that does have the side clamping slots in it. Most seem not to have them, and while that can be worked around it's a pain. The screwless type can't clamp a part as tight as the Kurt style can, but your not taking hogging cuts with these mills anyway. A set of parallels is pretty important also. Check whatever you buy since the off shore one's always seem to be a bit wavy on the top working surface. After that? Save your pennies for the X axis power feed. In my opinion it would be at the top of my list after a good vise if I had the whole mill. You can do a hell of a lot of milling with just a cheap set of fly cutters or even making them. But still buy the best HSS or braised carbide tool bits you can afford. I've even reshaped the factory grind to get enough clearance and used that for some fairly precise boring until I got a boring head. Just remember fly cutters ARE considered a finishing tool and taking large depths of cut on any mill is real hard on them. I've seen more than a few on Youtube taking large depths of cuts with flycutters and you can actualy hear the hammering on the videos as the cutting tool enters the cut each time. I don't know what the newest mills have for gearing in the head, but mine have a couple of plastic ones to protect the rest of the machine. If there still the same you will chew those up as well. Check your draw bars thread when you get the mill, mine wasn't a shining example of high quality threading to say the least. I ran mine through a good die and it was a lot better. The sharper and better quality your cutting tools are that you buy make these mills work a lot better. Information from thread posts and videos about improving and using these mills isn't in short supply so it was probably a good choice over a worn out machine.

It's not hard to do, just a bit time consumeing when all you want to do is use the mill as soon as you get it. From what I've seen I think it's more than important to strip any of these off shore mills down for a proper cleaning first. That slathered on shipping rust preventitive isn't close to being the correct way lube. And the mills moving parts especially the table screws, nuts, and dovetails aren't properly cleaned of the grinding dust before it's applied. Solvent cleaning those with some proper way lube next, and re-adjusting the factory settings will make a lot smoother, tighter, longer lasting and more accurate machine for the time spent.
stephenc
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:13 pm
Location: youngstown ohio

Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by stephenc »

Pete
Good advice is always welcome.

A good cleaning is definately first on the list , and if it's anything like my grizzly lathe. There will be some de-burring involved along with changing a few cheap Chinese fasteners.

I really hadn't thought about doing more then getting the x axis in tram to start with , my thinking was to get a few hours of use in the machine and let everything kinda get broken in and settled , then put the effort into getting things as right as possible.

The cylinder square is good advice, and it's use makes sense to me .. thank you :)

The plastic gears ,... from reading it seems the intermediate gear is the one that always goes, and having read of more then a few guys having to wait months to get them I made absolutely sure they was in stock and have two spares on the way with the mill.

The motor control board doesn't seem to be an issue with machines made in the last few years , with some luck I'll have a belt drive made for it and a three phase motor with a vfd on the mill before the warrantee is over.

Bad dog
Your use of the term .. last resort for the starret last word made me chuckle. I have one , it was and still in as nearly new condition when I got it. In The few times I have needed to use it , it always makes me nervous. It almost always feels sticky right out of the box until you work it threw the range of motion a few times. It works fine after that , but there's always that little feeling of doubt in the back of my mind.
pete
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Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by pete »

Sounds like you have the right game plan to me then. For the cleaning what I did on my Bridgeport clone was double check the bolts holding the feed nuts in place to be sure they were tight. Then I just cleaned them in place. It's a bit of a pita to re-align them with the slide travels if there's no built in alignment method. Getting the feed screws re-aligned with there end supports is simpler. Leave the tables end supports a little loose then run the table almost as far as you can in that direction, then tighten the bolts. If there's no alignment pins on those supports then there's enough movement on the mounting bolts to create possible binding of the feed screws in the nuts at the tables extremes of travel.

I've read a few posts where new owners found the rear column to be almost perfectly aligned right from the factory so maybe you'll get lucky. The first check I'd do is the Y axis across the table top to establish is was ground flat. My clone must have moved and cupped just a bit after it was ground, and due to work etc it was passed the warranty period before I figured that out. :-( So I'm overly paranoid about checking that. If the gibs aren't both straight and nice and smooth new shop built ones might be added to your list. A proper 3 ph and VFD would be a massive improvement and much more durable over the stock set up that's for sure. Using a cordless drill with a socket to fit the nut that holds the Z axis handwheel on makes using that a lot better. That's the one thing I'm not impressed with because of were it was placed. Mines probably a lot higher than it would be on the mill though.
stephenc
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:13 pm
Location: youngstown ohio

Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by stephenc »

I am not looking forward to cranking the head up and down .. my surface grinder has the crank in roughly the same place and it's about 100 turns per inch to move it .
At least it seems like that many turns .
I use a drill on it as well for long height changes
stephenc
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:13 pm
Location: youngstown ohio

Re: Ordered a g0704 mill

Post by stephenc »

Ups frieght called today , scheduled delivery tomarow between 12-2 pm .
I've had less the stellar experience with ups frieght and the Youngstown terminal before so I'm an holding off on getting excited untill I see the truck .

With some luck I'll have some pics tomarow
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