Suggestion for beginning set of Milling Cutters

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Blackwatch42nd
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Suggestion for beginning set of Milling Cutters

Post by Blackwatch42nd »

Hi folks, new to the forum and teaching myself machining, so don't have all terminology down yet. (actually, hardly any)

I have an 80's Bridgeport 2J, 1-1/2 hp. Just got it hooked up and running and I'm looking for advice on a good, all around initial set of cutters. Just something to get started and begin learning with, but enough to do most common cutting operations.

I also don't fully understand the plethora of tool holders, from arbors to collets to whatever. Which one are needed for which tools?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanx
John W.
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NP317
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Re: Suggestion for beginning set of Milling Cutters

Post by NP317 »

Assuming your Bridgeport 2J uses the standard R-8 collets, these should be all you need with standard diameter cutters to get started.
Just make sure your cutter diameters equal the collet diameters, i.e.. 1/2" cutter held in a 1/2" collet.
Suggestion:
Consider getting a set of single-ended 2-flute and 4-flute end mill cutters in varying diameters. They are available from various machine tooling suppliers for < $100 for the set of 14 or so cutters. Example:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/HSS-2-a ... rizzly.com

High Speed Steel cutters are good to start with. Carbide are not good for learning! "Coated" cutters are also not required unless you plan on serious material removal. I would stick with established suppliers. There are some really poor metals used in some import cutters.

Just my thoughts.
~RN
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warmstrong1955
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Re: Suggestion for beginning set of Milling Cutters

Post by warmstrong1955 »

What RN said.....
I started with a Enco import set of 2 & 4 flute HSS cutters. Waste of money, except if you crash one, you don't feel so bad.
Bought a made in USA set soon later.....much better!

As I got going, and learned, I started buying some carbide, again, brand name stuff, to fit the task at hand.
Same goes for odd diameters & metric, and extra long critters.
For harder alloys, and AR plate, and modifying hardened pins & bushings, carbide is almost a must.

Bill
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Re: Suggestion for beginning set of Milling Cutters

Post by BadDog »

Yes, don't go bottom of that barrel like Shars. Some claim acceptable value, but I've never found happiness with cheap anything with an edge, much less an end mill. Other than 2 flute aluminum cutters, I use mostly coated carbide because I machine mostly steel, and I'm very impatient. I run my machines more like a professional (only trainee skills, but still got to get 'er done) than a typical hobbyist. While I enjoy manual machining, I mainly do it because I want or need to make something that does not exist, or is stupidly expensive. I normally don't machine with any company just due to the risk of distractions. But so some of my hobby machinists buddies that have been here while I did something were more than a little surprised at how vigorously I go at things (particularly threading at speed, but also milling). So if you think you might approach things more like that, then the advice would still be to start with less expensive HSS cutters and when you are comfortable switch to good carbide (not cheap at all!) as appropriate to your needs.

For size I find that I most often use standard center cutting EMs in 1/2 and 1/4, though other sizes like 3/16 or even 3/8 are often useful. In 1/2" (mostly) and 3/8" I also have 3 flute roughers that flat MOVE some metal. And if you work on small stuff, obviously adjust as needed. If I had to start over (again focusing on off-road truck stuff) I would start with a few each in those selections and expand as I found good deals on ebay or the like. But that doesn't even start into fly cutters (must have for me), boring heads, and a few face mills (for a 2J 2-3" is pretty much the max for cutting, though you can run larger ($$$) just for sweep like a fast fly-cutter, usually with worse finish). Then there are trepanning tools, the list never ends...
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Re: Suggestion for beginning set of Milling Cutters

Post by Glenn Brooks »

I have had very good luck buying used cutters off of eBay. used, often reground, and cheap but usually very good steel. They don't have to be made in America . there are very good quality cutters coming from Israel, Poland, and other parts of Europe. Once in a while I get a bad one in a bunch but not very often. I suspect job shops sell them in lots rather than pay someone to take them to the scrap yard. It's a win win for hobbyists!
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Blackwatch42nd
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Re: Suggestion for beginning set of Milling Cutters

Post by Blackwatch42nd »

Thanx to all for the quick replies. Looks like the suggestion is to start with a variety of end mills and then expand to other type of cutters as needs arise.
John W
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Re: Suggestion for beginning set of Milling Cutters

Post by pete »

Arbors when it comes to a vertical milling machine are usually specified to fit the spindles internal taper. Likely R8 in your case. If so then direct fitting collets for your mill would have that same R8 taper and come in a variety of sizes both imperial or metric to fit the tool shanks diameter. Before buying make sure the collets tapped end is the same thread as your mills drawbar. 7/16ths X 20 tpi if yours has an imperial R8 drawbar. Each collet is designed to fit only that one size of tool shank diameter.To use a drill chuck you'd normally use an R8 arbor that has a taper on the bottom end to fit the drill chucks taper your planning on using. Most times that would be listed as a Jacobs taper although there are others. That use of the term arbor isn't set in stone though. Some might list it as a tool shank. Morse taper collets work much the same as the R8 does the only difference is the taper angle. Morse tapers due to there slow taper are generally thought of as self holding tapers and the steeper R8 taper as self releasing. With a mill they both still need drawbars and a hammer on the end of the drawbar to get them to release the tool. A lot more hammering on the Morse Taper collets than an R8 though. There's likely dozens of different collet designs around which can make things a bit confusing.

5C is probably the most used world wide, but is almost always used as a work holding method. A few lathes can use them as a direct fitting collet since the spindle is machined and ground to accept them and a drawbar is used as well to tighten and release them. There are 5C collet chucks made for use on lathes that don't take them directly. ER collets are probably the second most used collet system used world wide and are almost always used as a tool holding method. They range in size from an ER 8 up to ER 50's. For mill use they require a tool arbor or shank that fits the mills spindle taper and have a tapered chuck on the working end that takes the correct ER collet size. ER's can collapse roughly .040" to take a variety of tool shank sizes within that range.There's a nut that threads onto the collet chucks end that the collet is snapped into that closes and tightens the collet on the tool shank.

Good cutting tools are well worth there higher cost just like RN, Bill, Russ and Glenn have said. Cheap labor costs would have little effect on a tools quality and performance. That low cost always means one or more items have had corners cut during production. Choosing tooling for any mill is of course related to what your making usualy. End mills are the most commonly used, but for myself good flycutters are just as important when they can be used. But there a light finishing tool and your mill isn't designed to take heavy cuts with them. Face mills do much the same as a fly cutter except they use multiple teeth to do the same job. Unless you take very light cuts it's not recommended to go any larger than about 2 1/2" -
3" diameter with a Bridgeport sized machine. For most mill owners drilling is pretty important so at least one good keyed chuck isn't really optional. And since drills are pretty much a roughing tool that can't drill round, straight or on size then most might need a boring head at some point. The off shore ones can be made to work but don't bother with the cheap braised carbide 7 or 9 pc boring bar "sets" they sell for use with those boring heads. Like end mills that's where you buy the best quality you can afford. If it were me? I'd look for a good used 2" or 3" Criterion boring head on Ebay if you need one and some American or European made boring bars. Depending on what your making reamers might be important as well. Again you buy the best you can afford. For most a mill is far more expensive to add the tooling to than any lathe would be. Then there's Power Feeds, DRO's, Vises, Hold Down sets, Dividing Heads and Rotary Tables, etc,etc. :-) And work holding quality and accuracy is just as important as the cutting tools are.

I highly recommend a book titled Turret Mill Operation by John G. Edwards. It will teach you more about what you need to know than any amount of forum posts will.
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