bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

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BadDog
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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by BadDog » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:57 pm

Oh well... Tried the CA twice. Both times it seemed quite well bonded. The second time, I first tried spinning the ball a bit to make sure everything didn't get glued together, and I could feel the ball easily turning, and feel it move up and down in the detent. But in both cases, tugging on it produced some resistance, then broke free. I really just don't want to do the welder trick. Stuck/broken bolts, even down in holes, rounded nuts, lots of things I've done that for, but honestly, trying to stick a rod down in that hole makes me a bit queasy.

Also tried heat via a MAP Gas torch to the sleeve that the ball sets in. Got it up to nearly 300 and tried repeatedly with the stack of Neo magnets and rod, nothing. Got to smoking pretty good so I backed off and gave up not wanting to heat up the main casting too much since I want to clean it, not repaint it. Failed that too, but at least I think that should have cleared any errant CA.
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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by BadDog » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:58 pm

Ok, looks like John gets the cegar...

I tried CA a few more times, different prep, different dry times. It would pull it up to sort of stick before breaking off. Pushing back down you could feel substantial resistance from the CA wedging it up into the hole, but not through. At this point there is no doubt that it is clearly a mechanical limit and no amount of pulling, picking, etc was going to work.

So, TIG set to 150A EN no HF, full pedal, just slightly lift the tungsten to start the arc, then down, maybe 1/2 second of arc. It still took grabbing the tungsten with a pair of vise grips and pulling/rocking so hard I thought the tungsten would break first, but then out popped that damn ball...

I started with the ball as high as it would go (not in a detent). And it looks like the tungsten got off center, likely from instant melting of the locating tube, but I expect the arc started and stayed on the nearest thing, the raised ball, and by the time I went back down to stick it, it went direct short before anything else could get hit. Luckily it didn't damage the part at all. Oh, and the cupped rod (with dremel ball bur) used for the CA attempts was chucked into my drill to polish the ball, and make sure it had a solid clean connection between it and the shuttle rod to avoid secondary arcing.

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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by spro » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:38 pm

I'm just so glad that you got it out.

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BadDog
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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by BadDog » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:57 pm

Me too. It would be underestimating to say I've got about 6 hours in getting that out, then finished in 5 minutes setup at the end, but I was beginning to think that was going to fail too. Took WAY more pulling power to extract than it should have.
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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by wlw-19958 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:41 pm

Hi There,

Congrats on getting the bugger out! I know that makes your feel
a lot better. Just curious but, have you determined why it was
so difficult to get out?

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by BadDog » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:25 pm

Sort of, and not really. The hole itself appears to be rough drilled. The ball once extracted measured just under 0.188. I have a bunch of loose bearings, forget where they came from, maybe to replace a ball lost in either the rebuild of a super chuck, or possibly when cleaning and putting my Rubberflex into service. Forget which, but I recall loosing a ball and ordering a bag from Enco or McMaster. Anyway, they mostly measure around 0.184-0.185, but I found one that was just under 0.187, possibly from a different source since they were in a common bin. Anyway, I popped that in the hole (collar not installed) and was able retrieve it with only very moderate effort using the hand pump vacuum.

So my best guess is it's just a rough hole at the small side of the tolerance. Even the slightly under size ball I put in showed similar behavior, being free to move but not coming out readily. I did note that deeper in the bore (just below where the ball center would be) appears to be bigger, and slightly corroded as opposed to the rough drill-appearing finish of the upper hole. All I can say for sure is I'll be polishing up that hole before reassembly. I took 3 pics with my phone, and I think this shows it the most clearly. Can't get it to inline because of the resolution restriction.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1VIUoLGNYB2wmj823
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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by BadDog » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:47 pm

The damage around the hole is likely a result of my efforts to remove, not least of which was lighting a tungsten at 150A. But if you look close, there appears to be a very small bur/lip lifted, presumably from the ball removal. It really does act like it was peened in, but that would have had to be done after the collar was in place, and would make it impossible to dissemble, just as I found. I know Bridgeport isn't exactly the top end (precision or material moving), but I would hope that would not be part of their design.

Plus there are a lot of folks who have removed these with negligible or at least reasonable effort, unlike me and the guy who ended his standoff with the cut-off angle grinder approach. John mentioned having experienced problems and frustration, but after getting it out, I really feel there was simply no way short of sticking an electrode to it or complete destruction for this one to come apart. So the difficulty on this one seems more likely an aberration than intentional.

Edit: What happened? The post I replied to just evaporated? Anyway, my this post is relevant on it's own.
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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by Patio » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:36 pm

Russ, I am glad for your success in getting the ball out. There is nothing better than the feeling of triumph and relief from a successful project, when the original outcome was not thought to be very promising.
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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by Harold_V » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:53 am

BadDog wrote:Edit: What happened? The post I replied to just evaporated?
The board log indicates it was deleted by the author, and the very reason why editing has been taken away from readers--an attempt to stop such nonsense. It often destroys a thread. Fortunately, in this case, it appears it did not.

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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by spro » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:07 am

It depends upon the meaning of "CA". If someone thought a carbon arc electrode could do this, they would be wrong. They are very brittle with little tensile strength. The idea is that they are clad with copper and fire through the electrode. In a similar manner, a welding rod fires/welds through the center and there is resistance by the flux coat to fire sideways into copper when the steel ball is right there. Good shield and some milliseconds of power.

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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by BadDog » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:38 am

I figured that might be it, or a board glitch.

Sorry again. CA was meant to refer back to the cyanoacrylate discussion.
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Re: bridgeport handwheel clutch collar - ball stuck

Post by spro » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:44 am

Good stuff...which isn't all that rare here. The J kit has bearings which are very precise in that, the spacers are at the same height. The right amount of red grease is applied and good to go. I think it important to know that the upper bearings' cover has a nice oil cup. This allowed oil to flood all these bearings. Thinking more M head now: if you have permanently greased lower bearings, there should be sealed bearings atop. Nice cup is a vent and not a receptacle of oil.

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