Burke #4 Questions

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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Slipped Eccentric
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Location: Nanticoke, Pa

Burke #4 Questions

Post by Slipped Eccentric »

Hello all, I am looking to get my Burke #4 up and running. As it came to me I'm not exactly thrilled with the drive setup so if anyone out there can help with the original motor output rpm and pulley sizes I would greatly appreciate it.

Justin
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Justin, the Burke’s were built with several different configurations of motors over the years, particularly during the war years when machines were produced for shipboard service as well as factory production work. The original motors were large two speed affairs, that contained an integrated gear box with a 2:1 reduction ratio. As I remember, the motor speed is 1200 rpm, but the output shaft is around 385 on my machine. My motor is 110 v. However others have a similar series motor in 220v. I will go check my electrical face plate and post the numbers to confirm, tomorrow afternoon, when I get back into my shop. Also can measure the pulley sizes and advise what I have.

FWIW. far as I am aware there is no published set of operating speed ranges for the Burke. You will just have to do some math based on what size pulley’s you have mounted.

Also, you might search the archives. I remember having a similar conversation about Burke speed ranges several years ago- although it might have been on some other forum.

Regards
Glenn
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Slipped Eccentric
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Slipped Eccentric »

Thank you, Glenn. The motor with my mill isn't original, and when I went looking for info saw they came with geared heads. Right now it's a 1750 rpm motor that drives the spindle through an idler to the pulley that would drive the power feed setup. It still has a flat belt pulley on the spindle shaft that I would like to replace with vee belt pulleys giving me back all of the different speed options for the power feed. As long as I can get an idea of what the original spindle rpm's are I can start going back and figure out what pulleys I'll need. I haven't had much luck with my search so far, so appreciate any info you can toss my way.

Justin
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Glenn Brooks »

I think I wrote all that down when I first got the Burke up and running. I’ll see if I can find it out in the shop. 1750 RPM motor will be pretty fast for this style of machine as I recall. The slower the better.

BTW do you have the vertical milling attachment, or just be running it as a horizontal mill? You’ll want faster speeds with the vertical attachment, slower for horizontal cutters I think. Because of higher chip loading etc.

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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Glenn Brooks
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Justin,

Checked my Master Geared Motor inspection plate just now.

Here are the specs:

Motor speed 1725 RPM
Shaft motor output speed:280 RPM
Vee belt pulley sizes 3”,4”, and 5”

Pulley ratios: 5:3, 4:4(1:1), 3:5

Theoretical shaft rpm: 488,280,208
Measured shaft Rpm: 516,300,200

It seems the motor runs slightly faster than rated, hence the actual shaft speeds are about 5% faster than theoretical. My 1919 dalton lathe behaves the same way.

Also note I have 4 power feed pulley sizes. The pulley on the shAft has four shelves, ODs of 3”, 4”,5” and 6”.

The receiving pulley mounted on the drive side of the feed mechanism appears to be a newer replacement. It is one size smaller. Having 2”, 3”,4”, and 5” diameter sheaves. This gives me a slightly broader range of feed rates. However I have not measured the IPM so don’t know what it is.

The main thing is keep the speeds (RPM) low on these old machines. Probably do not exceed 500RPM whAt ever you do. The bearings and shafts aren’t designed to handle modern day high speed machining operation

Hope this helps.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Slipped Eccentric
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Slipped Eccentric »

Thank you again, Glenn. I will most likely end up using the vertical head more often but do have projects that will make use of the horizontal setup. I definitely don't want to spin it too fast, though.

Justin
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Harold_V
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Harold_V »

Slipped Eccentric wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:57 pm Thank you again, Glenn. I will most likely end up using the vertical head more often but do have projects that will make use of the horizontal setup. I definitely don't want to spin it too fast, though.

Justin
If you pay attention to surface speeds, especially if you use side cutters, the required speeds are generally quite slow, and they get unusually slow as they increase in diameter. Large cutters must be operated at surprisingly slow speeds to avoid being burned, especially when machining ferrous materials.

I make mention because, at a glance, you're inclined to think you can speed things up. Do the math before you do. You'll be happy you did, especially if it saves you the cost of a new cutter.

Just sayin'

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Slipped Eccentric
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Slipped Eccentric »

Hi Harold, just the opposite. Have other equipment to get higher spindle speeds with, just want to keep this as close as I can to the original speed range. Possibly even lower so I can swing a decent diameter cutter if needed (within the limits of the machine, anyway).

Justin
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Harold_V
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Harold_V »

Slipped Eccentric wrote: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:03 am Possibly even lower so I can swing a decent diameter cutter if needed (within the limits of the machine, anyway).
Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking with my admonition to keep close watch on surface speed. For a horizontal machine, where large cutters are the norm, slow is better than too fast.

Many years ago I loaned a 1/16" x 6" slitting saw to a fellow machinist, which was returned to me destroyed by overspeed. Even seasoned machinists tend to run cutters too fast if they don't crunch the numbers before starting a cut.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Carrdo
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Carrdo »

Slotting a pair of heart shaped rockers (in hot rolled steel) on my # 4 Burke using a 4" diameter, 1/16" wide HSS side tooth slotting saw. 40 rpm on the spindle.

As Harold says, run these saws very slowly especially if you want an on size, and straight slot. Side tooth slotting saws cost $$$.

My modified electrics on this mill allow for variable speed.
Attachments
52 Slotting the Rockers.jpg
Glenn Brooks
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Carrdo,

Just curious. How did you gear down to 40 RPM for your slitting saw. Near as I can tell on my Burke #4, I can only go down to 280 RPM.

Thanks
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
Carrdo
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Re: Burke #4 Questions

Post by Carrdo »

Glenn,

I have a custom adapted variable speed controller and electric motor (from a tread mill) on the Burke #4 mill which allows one to turn the motor at any speed (from 0 rpm up to maximum rpm).
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