Cinti ToolMaster 1D variable speed pulley & motor shaft ?

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f350ca
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Re: Cinti ToolMaster 1D variable speed pulley & motor shaft ?

Post by f350ca » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:17 pm

Harolds idea is quite feasible, I made a smaller one for the variable drive on an old Delta scroll saw. Tried to post a picture but forgot how. Made it up with a plate and shaft weldament.
There are two part putties that you need then cure with heat from a light bulb. High heat resistance and tough, they machine like cast iron.

Greg

Harold_V
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Re: Cinti ToolMaster 1D variable speed pulley & motor shaft ?

Post by Harold_V » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:03 am

jcfx wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:31 pm
Thanks everyone for chiming in, Harold V, machining a new sleeve from bar stock is tops on my list of methods to repair this,
definitely easier and it probably hold up better than re brazing the broken parts together.
The original part is most likely made of one piece. That's to prevent the sleeve from separating from the half sheave. There's a little pressure involved,so making it from one piece more or less assures it doesn't come apart. Not saying it can't be accomplished, but you would be best served making it as a weldment. Making it from a solid would be good, but that's a lot of roughing to achieve the desired end, and most likely wouldn't be cheap due to the large piece required.
Why 1045 steel ? I was leaning towards using 4130.
I'm not sure I'd even go with 4130. Mild steel won't present any issues in welding, and it's up to the task, especially for a machine used in hobby work. I'd trust one made of mild steel more than I'd trust cast iron. However, if a guy has access to chrome moly, no harm in using it, for sure. I'd avoid 4140 if there's any welding involved, although it, too, can be welded. It's just a lot more complicated due to the slightly higher carbon content. I'd feel the same way about 1045, which would complicate matters if there's any welding involved. Using either of them would offer a risk of fracturing after welding unless they were properly addressed by heat treat.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

jcfx
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Re: Cinti ToolMaster 1D variable speed pulley & motor shaft ?

Post by jcfx » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:35 pm

Harold, you're correct that the OEM part is one piece, the OD of the broken half of the sheave is about 2.625" and
I have 1" annular cutter that I can rough core out solid stock so it would lessen the amount of material to be machined.

The Toolmaster mill is a shared machine in a production environment so every mothers son is on it at some point during the
month, so the tougher the repair the better.

Good points on the steel, I just bought a Lincoln 210 MP and I'm a total noob when
it comes to welding, it's still in the box.

Jaxian
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Re: Cinti ToolMaster 1D variable speed pulley & motor shaft ?

Post by Jaxian » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:13 am

As mentioned earlier Parts and Parts has probably the most parts for old K&T and Cincinnati mills. When I talked to him it was 7 warehouses. The prices at the time, about 4 years ago where staggering. He was used to selling to rail, over the road, oil companies and such. Old business that still had them kicking around to do specific jobs they didn't feel like spending $100k's of dollars on CNC's but had money to burn so prices where not geared toward actual normal people or shops but to purchasing departments of big companies where they don't even think of the cost. So things like table stops, basically a square with a hole in it where like $50. Handles started at $150, overarm supports for horizontals where like $600.

That being said he did have a ton of stuff.

Also you can check with Bob Rowe at Rowe Machinery (831) 458-9181. He has a few of them and at least one just sitting there that I think is for for parts. He is a great guy so no harm in just calling him and asking if he anything or if he knows where parts can be located. Hope this helps.

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ALCOSTEAM
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Re: Cinti ToolMaster 1D variable speed pulley & motor shaft ?

Post by ALCOSTEAM » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:37 am

Back when I was dealing with Parts n Parts the sales guys all quoted me ridiculous prices. The main thing I needed was the lower quill housing as the retards that had the mill I was working on had for some reason taken the head apart and lost pieces. I was quoted about 3K for what amounted to the lower quill casting, the quill and a few parts they had left on it. So at the time I just figured I would either mount the 2hp bridgeport head I had sitting here or find something more suited to the size of the mill. The main item that sidelined the mill in the first place was someone had taken the stop dog off the top end of the Z axis rail and the mill got put in up travel which allowed the screw to come up out of the knee nut and it got damaged. I got the part number for the knee nut out of my manuals and called CMT who refereed me to the people who had taken over supplying parts. They wanted 1500.00 for the acme thread insert that goes into the knee pedestal. My comment to the lady on the phone was, don't you think most people that own these machines could make that part for a WHOLE LOT LESS. She just about screamed back into the phone "WE HEAR THAT EVERYDAY". She was nice enough to give me the info on Parts n Parts as a used parts source, their standard is to price used parts at 50% of new so I still was not going to pay 750.00 for a part I could make on the lathe.
By the end of the next weekend I had machined and fitted the knee nut and had all but the knee drive motor back in the mill for about 30 bucks.
Several months goes by and I end up talking to a fellow that had over the years bought several parts from Parts n Parts and I was like how can you deal with those people, they want more for a small part than most people pay for a whole machine. He explained that when he needed a part he would call just after 6am when he knew the owner was in but the sales people were not. The next day I was sitting ready at 5am our time and sure enough I get the owner on the phone and explained to him I had talked to his sales guys months before. We chat a bit about Cincinnati machines and I explained to him I didn't need to spend more than I could buy a new brand x head for and adapt it to the machine. In the end I got the parts I needed for about 1/4 what the sales guys quoted me and we were both happy campers. Its been almost 20 years now so I can't say if the same owner might answer the phone early in the morning.

jcfx
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Re: Cinti ToolMaster 1D variable speed pulley & motor shaft ?

Post by jcfx » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:27 pm

Thanks for all the replies, Toolmaster mills must have been the Cadillac's of mills, most of the info I dredged up seem to support
crazy expensive used parts, in the end they decided to braze the broken parts back together with an added sleeve over the repair.

An interesting problem came up when truing up the brazed repair is that another friend who did the turning encountered super hard spots
while truing it up, ate a carbide tool when it hit that hard spot.
There is still the munged up motor armature shaft to deal with, I did suggest JB Weld, but they seem to have idea on how to do that.

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Re: Cinti ToolMaster 1D variable speed pulley & motor shaft ?

Post by spro » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:40 am

Previous suggestions. The shaft milled straight and the key "L" shaped. The key potted into JB. It shouldn't rock&roll to much because it is a tight fit. Going at it with a welder or high heat presents problems as noted. Right now is gripping the shaft with the honking motor on the table. That can be figured out quickly. A high speed tool, clamped to the quill, can make short work of straightening that slot.
It occurs that the key be "T" shaped. By milling exact amount from other side of slot. Once the mill is together, you can make the "T" if and when you need it.

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