Round Ram Upgrade

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ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:09 pm

I think the circumference of Ram is the same , mine has no adapter it is a 1955 round Ram

spro
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by spro » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:33 pm

Those solid round rams are massive for an M head. It looks like the ram stroke is adjusted when the head is at 90/ vertical. That is based upon the pix of the turret and the ram rack of his original. It is confusing to me now but has to be more info from charlie.

ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:27 pm

The pinion is meant to be pulled up disengaging the rack on the ram if head is to be tilted on the J head round Ram, also J head round Rams came without the rack and pinion

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whisperfan
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by whisperfan » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:30 am

The ram diameter is the same ... I located an old manual which showed parts diagrams during the era of the round ram Bridgeports. The catalog shows the ram ... Bridgeport lists as an 'Overarm' as a 'Standard Duty' and has the knuckle ... and a 'Heavy Duty' and is it fixed. I just bought the 'overarm' and not a new turret - but the new arm goes right in and is quite smooth.

My phase converter is like the basic one described in the article I quoted. I don't have capacitors and other wiring ... just using the big 5 HP 3-PH motor turning to supply the power. The main 'trouble' as I see it, is that my power (being single phase) is 180 degrees out of phase with 2 legs ... and 'true' 3 phase is 120 degrees between phases. According to the article, this leads to a reduction in hp and can cause heat build-up. I do not use the motor in a 'continuous duty' state, and neither issue trouble me.

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whisperfan
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by whisperfan » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:38 am

Image
Here is that photo I described ... as you can see the knuckle on the 'overarm' was not intended to adjust fro nod, as it swivels in the horizontal plain ... so it was more for 'swing' I can't think of a situation when it would be really all that useful.

I've also decided not to try to cut any 'rack gears' on the new overarm ... there are too many variables in my mind ... cutting on one side of a machined round cylinder.

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whisperfan
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by whisperfan » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:40 am

spro wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:38 pm
Did you buy the turret and ram because the ram was larger diameter and the head plate was larger?
I bought the overarm because the head plate was larger and I didn't want to make an adapter plate to go from my older 'overarm' to the new head.

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whisperfan
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by whisperfan » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:43 am

spro wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:55 pm
Middle 1956 and up, there was the V ram. The J head is attached to a knuckle attachment. This attachment allows for nod and tilt. The head plate/flange is machined for Tee nuts. Is yours machined that way?
My old one was ... but it is too small a diameter for the new J head ... so I will likely sell it or donate it to a deserving person ... When my machine was 'new' (to me) there were something like 6 teeth broken on the overarm (ram) and I did a little Mig welding and filing to make it so the overarm travel did not have any dead spots in it ... it's not too pretty, but it works - so the actual value left in this thing is likely at the end where the swivel joint is.

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whisperfan
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by whisperfan » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:47 am

ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:48 am
His doesn't have the rack and pinion mine does still should be able to move in and out easily with well-oiled ram
Right! My turret has the hole to hold the 'pinion' that moves the overarm ... but my overarm has no rack teeth ... so I will likely just plug the hole to keep from getting dust in it and see how easily it slides with the overarm and head mounted. I didn't need to move it in and out very often anyway - so it probably won't be an issue

spro
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by spro » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:54 pm

Does your HD ram have the key slot? The way the original worked ; The ring gear was keyed to the slot - as you know- and the M 37 adapter also allowed the head to be tilted, side to side. When the ram was rotated 90*, the head could tilt ( Nod ) forward and back. Of course the head would be adjusted back with the adapter. I'm pretty sure the E head/ shaper head adapter is the same to mount a J head on the tongue.

ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:29 pm

Yes the Ram is keyed

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whisperfan
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by whisperfan » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:34 pm

spro wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:54 pm
Does your HD ram have the key slot? The way the original worked ; The ring gear was keyed to the slot - as you know- and the M 37 adapter also allowed the head to be tilted, side to side. When the ram was rotated 90*, the head could tilt ( Nod ) forward and back. Of course the head would be adjusted back with the adapter. I'm pretty sure the E head/ shaper head adapter is the same to mount a J head on the tongue.
Yup ... you can see it here

I'm de-greasing and painting. I still have to mask and paint the knee ... but the rest is coming out nice

Image

Here you can see I am cleaning ... the grease someone use in the ways got everywhere and to really clean it out so I can switch back to way oil, I really needed to take apart each piece and clean it. It is a job - for sure .... but when it's done it will look and operate like new (I hope)

Image

Image

The re-assembly will probably be next weekend.

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whisperfan
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Re: Round Ram Upgrade

Post by whisperfan » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:29 pm

spro wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:33 pm
Those solid round rams are massive for an M head. It looks like the ram stroke is adjusted when the head is at 90/ vertical. That is based upon the pix of the turret and the ram rack of his original. It is confusing to me now but has to be more info from charlie.
Sorry - never replied ...

Yes - the ram (overarm) is heavy ... but it is not solid. The ones for the J head weren't solid either ... but I certainly agree that they were probably overkill for an M-Head that had a Jacobs or B&S tapered collet and a 1/2 hp motor.

The extension/retraction can only be accomplished when the head is at 90 degrees (or nearly so)
So if you are at 45 degrees, and you need to extend the overarm, you need to bring the head back to 90 degrees with the ring gear, then drop the pinion into place, then extend ... then you can rotate the head back to your desired working angle.

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