Benchtop Horizontal Mill, is it worth it?

[Hydro Junkie]

Okay those that are more knowledgable than me, which means just about everyone, I need some advice.
I recently learned that it is possible to convert a Sherline vertical mill into a horizontal mill by mounting the whole mill to a heavy slab of aluminum or steel, shortening the vertical axis base and mounting it to the slab and ordering a horizontal adapter for the headstock. Since I have a NIB cross slide assembly and vertical column as well as a complete Craftsman nameplated Sherline mill, would it be worth converting the "Craftsman" mill to a horizontal and order what I need to make the new mill operational along with the afore mentioned 90* adapter? In addition, is a horizontal mill really that beneficial since I'm only making parts for scale models? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
Hydro Junkie

[Bill Shields]

Why?

The primary reason to have a horizontal mill is to have mechanical abilities that you do not have with a vertical...things like tombstones, pallets, 4th axes, huge tool changers etc:..and, of course, the nicety of having the chips fall away from the work with a steady stream of coolant to wash them along.

The trade off is that Sir Isaac doesn't help with setups as he does with verticals.

Since I would doubt that you will have constant flood coolant to wash chips away, I would see no reason to flop that little mill over on its side...

[Robert Campbell jr.]

I'd be inclined to keep a serious eye out for a good small horizontal. Lots of names, Burke, P & W, Hardinge, Millright, U.S. Machine tools, Nichols, Atlas, Benchmaster, Diamond, Elgin, Fray, Rusnok, Sheldon/Vernon, etc.

A few of the above command high prices, such as the Pratt and Whitney, Hardinge and Elgin. Some folks get lucky on those, once in a while. Luck has less to do with it than making it a habit to search all the sources, daily. Classifieds, Craigs list, Ebay etc. "With lot's of tooling" can be very valuable.

I have 2 of the above titles, Benchmaster and U.S. Machine tools, with a moderately larger Index as well.

You'll be so glad when you one day think, "would sure like to cut some small gears." takes a dividing head AND a good horizontal.

They will serve so much more ably than a very light mill that has been converted and do so much more.

Imagine building a simple fixture that clamps various sizes of tubes and is lockable in many different angles. Put whatever sized holesaw in the the arbor and cut any angle of tubing notch you need, knowing that the little Sherline would have stalled when first the cutter touched the tube.

Take on the mindset, "a few hundred mile roadtrip would be fun, with something very special to bring home". The above machines won't tax a compact pickup and many will slip in a big auto trunk. Even larger ones will ride nicely in a U-Haul.

Sell the extra vertical to off-set some of the cost of a small but very capable horizontal. Probably save time overall.

If you are serious about home machining, you'll probably end up with a good small horizontal sooner or later. Why not sooner?

Bob

[spro]

RCj now you feel like I do half the time except you made sense. You can't sell a horizontal but we can certainly tell somebody not to mess with a little lathe and be disappointed with its ability when turned into one. It's a different animal. Having a fine tight lathe for small precision work is a joy. All horizontals weigh dearly.They can be a piece of cast ass if you don't use them. One must consider all the tables and beds had a horo in the past plus the setups you mentioned. i cannot see without the smallest of slitting wheels how a Sherline becomes a horizontal.

[GeneK]

Hydro, I have both the standard Sherline mill and the horizontal conversion. The short answer is a question, what do you want to do?. The current production mills have two key slots to lock the head in either vertical or horizontal. My mills were old enough that I had to mill my own slot for the horizontal configuration.
My main use for the horizontal mill is gear and wheel cutting for clock making. The Sherline works well in this capacity for me, but it is not a Burke bench top mill. It has no over arm and I have not figured how to add one to mine, yet.
Sherline components are available for reasonable prices and each part can be bought sepparately, also the Sieg parts, headstock, x and y base etc are available. It's possible to frankenstein some quite interesting machines, just how much time and money you want to put into the project.

GeneK

Okay those that are more knowledgable than me, which means just about everyone, I need some advice.
I recently learned that it is possible to convert a Sherline vertical mill into a horizontal mill by mounting the whole mill to a heavy slab of aluminum or steel, shortening the vertical axis base and mounting it to the slab and ordering a horizontal adapter for the headstock. Since I have a NIB cross slide assembly and vertical column as well as a complete Craftsman nameplated Sherline mill, would it be worth converting the "Craftsman" mill to a horizontal and order what I need to make the new mill operational along with the afore mentioned 90* adapter? In addition, is a horizontal mill really that beneficial since I'm only making parts for scale models? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
Hydro Junkie

[Hydro Junkie]

My goal is to be able to make any parts I need for scale R/C hydroplanes and aircraft. Since the biggest boat I'm working on is only 61.5 inches long and the smallest is 36, I don't see the need to buy some heavy unit to make parts that will normally be less than 3" long. Same thing for the aircraft, with wingspans of less than 80", smallest being 32", I can't see the need for a piece of equipment that can bore holes big enough to put my hand through. As for materials, I won't be milling much beyond 6061 or 7075 so again, why do I need to be looking at something as big as those mentioned in earlier posts. I know everyone means well and is looking at the rule of buying bigger than you think you will need, but there comes a point of overkill. I was really asking if it's worth doing and is there really that much use in general for a horizontal mill.

[Robert Campbell jr.]

Hydro, your clarification of only needing a mill for model making does change things but I still think a small commercial mill would be much more satisfying in the long run.

Here's a link to the Benchmaster, http://www.lathes.co.uk/benchmaster/index.html to illustrate some of the advantages.

First, there is no collet system that delivers more and costs less, (in it's range) than #2MT. 20 bucks will buy a full set of descent new imports in 1/8" increments.

It's all cast iron construction is many times more ridgid than a mill based on the Sherline frame. The 6" X 18" cast iron table offers the flexibility of three T slots for 1/4-20 clamp bolts. Snug them down tight and you won't deform the table, as you can with an aluminum extrusion. Why snug 'em tight? 'cause you can and will take descent cuts without disgusting chatter, you'll like that, a lot.

Depending on your shopping skills/luck, there's a good chance that you can get a markedly superior machine for no more cash and as quickly as you will be able to modify the Sherline. I'm thinking in the range of a few hundred dollars for either.

Having said all that, you sound a lot like me, "just let me do it myself!" The difference between us, I never ask anyones opinion!

Been there, done that, still do. Did I usually end up better off than had I gone commercial? No.

So it was a waste of time and money to build a machine with limited capability and usability, right? Absolutely not! I learned a lot everytime and it gave me some insight to how very good the proven commercial machines really are.

There are few bargains in the smallest mills, such as the Benchmaster and the three I singled out in my first post. That's why I recommend the next size up. Even more capable and take little or no more floor space but go for much less than the highly sought after small machines. I bought my U.S. Machine Tools floor mount horizontal for $1!!!! Only bidder. It occupies little more floor space than my Benchmaster but it is several times heavier. I've learned that once it's in place, that weight is a big advantage. It stands solid as a mill should, not skipping about like a dancing partner.

I still love my first mill, the Benchmaster, had it thirty plus years but I haven't used it since I got the $1 mill.

Have fun either way and post pix either way. I'm sure most of us would enjoy seeing the Shereline mods or that fabulous bargain machine you rescued from the smelters, Bob

[MikeC]

I understand that you wish only to make use of basically what are spare parts you have laying around. The conversion might be a fun project, but the resulting horizontal mill would probably not be very capable. The great advantage to a horizontal mill is rigidity and power, so you can get through with a slotting job, facing job, or cutoff faster. The Sherline conversion really isn't going to achieve that goal. You'll end up with a small vertical mill layig on its side.

You might come out better to sell those sought after Sherline parts you have, instead of hacking them up, and buying a little benchtop horizontal. Benchtop horizontals are usually pretty cheap. You could buy a little benchtop and then sell the Sherline bits, as they should go pretty quickly. You would have the benefit of being able to rough out stuff on the horiontal and then do the tedious stuff on your existing Sherline.

One of the great features of the Benchmaster is that, with the right parts, it can be relatively quickly converted to a vertical mill, as well. They are still fairly small mills and are far more rigid and capable than the Sherline. It would be like comparing a 9"SB or similar to a Taig or Sheline lathe. There is nothing you can do on the Sherline you can't do on this mill, but the reverse certainly is not true. It would require a heavier bench and a bit more space, but not more than a Sherline vertical and an adapted Sherline horizontal.

A disadvantage in many cases, the Benchmaster runs a good deal faster than most horizontals because it has no backgear. In your case, this would be to advantage because you are working aluminum.

I have one in pieces that used to a be a production machine with the X axis cranks and leadscrew replaced by a hydraulic cylinder. I am looking for a trashed vertical so I can scavenge those bits, as well as get my hands on the vertical head, pulleys and such.

[Hydro Junkie]

Actually, RCj, I'm not saying that I want to go it alone as i don't have the experience with a horizontal mill to really know what one can do. At the same time, I also don't have room or the funds to go and buy another piece of equipment and the associated tooling, so I was looking at the spare mill as a fairly inexpensive way to get some "hands on" time.

MikeC, I can see what you're saying as well, but without the funds or room, a purpose designed horizontal is something I can't really look at in the near future.

I hope that I don't look argumentative, but knowing how some people in this forum look at anything not having at least 1.5 HP as a waste of time, I look at answers given in that context as well. However, at the same time, if the Sherline isn't really up to the task it's not worth converting.